Author Topic: Ed's new big blue  (Read 6638 times)

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Mark5

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Re: Ed's new big blue
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2010, 06:13:51 PM »
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Lee,

I hate to tell ya this, but Maryland aint exactly the center of the universe (cultural or otherwise!). ;)

Arbitron just last year moved its HQ to Maryland from NYC, but that's just off the top of my head.

We'll have fun when we finally meet up and have beer. ;D

Mark

JDouglasFisher

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Re: Ed's new BREWERY COMPLEX
« Reply #46 on: June 16, 2010, 10:48:41 AM »
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Hey Ed?

I like the idea of a brewery, as it can be an awesome switch, but I have to ask, couple of things...

1.) Where do you plan to send the "spent grains" too and how? (and from what I understand, no, you can't use the same covered hoppers that the grains originally came in either)
2.) I'm not familiar with Natty Boh (prefer Yuengling myself) but how is it shipped? Kegs? Cans, Bottles? What about packing materials?
3.) Grains come in hoppers, however HOPs can come in different methods (dried is most common, though fresh isn't uncommon either, they come reefered.)



Although you can pack a whole lot of action in 2x3 feet, instead of trying to slip in 2 breweries and a chemical reciever, how about building one brewery rather faithfully, with all the proper spots and tracks necessary?

It would also better justify the SIT yard

If you can borrow a copy, get your hands on "Industries Along the Track #2". Although my purpose for owning the book was to research the paper industry more, there is an excellent chapter on Breweries that explains all of what I mentioned.

Till next time,

ciao,

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Ed's new big blue
« Reply #47 on: June 16, 2010, 11:08:24 AM »
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Yes, you are absolutely right about that.

Time to go get the book.

Bob Bufkin

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Re: Ed's new big blue
« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2010, 11:40:06 AM »
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Ed

I have that book plus 2 other Industries Along the Right of way.  If you want to borrow them, let me know.

You're coming along with your RR.  Looking good so far.  You gonna need a lot of trees eventually.

wm3798

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Re: Ed's new big blue
« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2010, 12:23:23 PM »
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Yes, and since you're modeling east Baltimore in the winter, you'll need to model a lot of blue walmart bags stuck in those trees! ;D
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Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Ed's new big blue
« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2010, 01:54:33 PM »
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Yes, yes I do Bob.

Its funny, you never think trees are important in an urban setting, but they are.

And Lee, yeah, I'm gonna have to figure out how best to do litter. The problem is, I need period litter.

2-8-8-0

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Re: Ed's new big blue
« Reply #51 on: June 16, 2010, 07:50:15 PM »
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You people really know how to make someone consider switching from steam to Geeps, Alcos, and other  diesel et cetera, dont ya (I loves me some RS-3s I do!)

I love this, by the way; o cool to see layout construction from start to finish, really uplifting for those of us who have layouts only in our imaginations!
Just say no to dummy couplers.

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Ed's new big blue
« Reply #52 on: June 16, 2010, 08:11:44 PM »
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I meant to mention this the other day. Just because you're renting doesn't mean you can't be building.

My "kidney" was built while my wife and I were living in a 1 bedroom apartment.

Dave Schneider

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Re: Ed's new BREWERY COMPLEX
« Reply #53 on: June 16, 2010, 09:16:10 PM »
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If you can borrow a copy, get your hands on "Industries Along the Track #2". Although my purpose for owning the book was to research the paper industry more, there is an excellent chapter on Breweries that explains all of what I mentioned.


They have some tables in this book about how many carloads of various ingredients are needed relative to the brewery capacity, but when I run the numbers for Schlitz and Pabst in the 1970s I get what seems like too few covered hopper carloads per day compared to the photos I have. Not saying that it is wrong, just that it doesn't make sense to me (as if that were something new). I'll take another look at this tonight over a beer.

Best wishes, Dave
If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was probably worth it.

2-8-8-0

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Re: Ed's new big blue
« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2010, 10:33:33 PM »
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I meant to mention this the other day. Just because you're renting doesn't mean you can't be building.

My "kidney" was built while my wife and I were living in a 1 bedroom apartment.

Yeah, this is true; I suppose if you and others can manage, so could I. The issue atm is the fact that after completion of my bachelor's, I will be pursuing a masters, then PhD, and am not 100% sure what university I will be attending to do so. Still, I think a smallish layout is something that could be managed...!

Nonetheless, I am learning a lot of good ideas from threads like this. Thanks!
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Dave Schneider

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Re: Ed's new BREWERY COMPLEX
« Reply #55 on: June 17, 2010, 03:08:45 AM »
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If you can borrow a copy, get your hands on "Industries Along the Track #2". Although my purpose for owning the book was to research the paper industry more, there is an excellent chapter on Breweries that explains all of what I mentioned.


They have some tables in this book about how many carloads of various ingredients are needed relative to the brewery capacity, but when I run the numbers for Schlitz and Pabst in the 1970s I get what seems like too few covered hopper carloads per day compared to the photos I have. Not saying that it is wrong, just that it doesn't make sense to me (as if that were something new). I'll take another look at this tonight over a beer.

Best wishes, Dave
Had a beer (Alaska Amber) and did a bit of math this evening.
The main inbound raw materials for beer making are malted barley and corn or rice in about a 70-30 mix. The tables in the Kalmbach book lists 34 pounds of these materials per barrel, while other sources suggest something like 50 lbs per 31 gallon barrel (http://www.madehow.com/Volume-2/Beer.html).

Brewing capacity for a large plant like Schlitz in Milwaukee was around 7 million barrels per year, but 2 million barrels per year would likely be enough to warrant rail service. So this works out to 34,000 to 50,000 tons of malt and corn/rice for a 2M barrel operation and 119K to 175K tons for 7M per year.

If you put this all in 100 ton covered hoppers, it is about 1.3 to 1.9 cars per day for the 2M barrel plant and 4.6 to 6.7 cars per day for the 7M barrel plant (for 5 days per week for 52 weeks).  Hops and corn syrup are minor players, with a 1-2 cars each week for the 2M plant. Fresh hops are shipped in reefers, while hops pellets are shipped in covered hoppers.

Assuming the beer is all shipped by rail in 50 foot RBs, this is about 27 cars per day for a 2M plant and about 95 cars per day for a 7M barrel plant. Spent grain is the other main shipment in similar volumes to the inbound. The bottom line is that you need way more RBs than covered hoppers. Hope this helps.

Best wishes, Dave
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 03:10:33 AM by Dave Schneider »
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jsoflo

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Re: Ed's new big blue
« Reply #56 on: June 17, 2010, 08:21:05 AM »
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I had considered doing the Yeungling brewery on the Reading and Northern, not very large operation, here are some photos:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=324857&nseq=5

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1912397

« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 09:43:16 PM by jsoflo »

wm3798

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Re: Ed's new big blue
« Reply #57 on: June 17, 2010, 09:24:45 AM »
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I don't think Rail Images allows hot linking... just post the links without the image tags...

Also, National, despite its name, was really a regional brewer, and probably shipped 99% of it's product to within easy trucking distance.  I don't recall them having a rail siding for distribution at either of their locations.

Lee
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 09:26:43 AM by wm3798 »
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