Author Topic: Chesapeake and Ohio C-16  (Read 2848 times)

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2-8-8-0

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Chesapeake and Ohio C-16
« on: June 10, 2010, 09:24:30 PM »
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It begins!

Inspired by kitbashes and projects built by other members here, I have decided to begin my first real kitbash, of converting a LifeLike 0-8-0 into a C&O C-16. This seems to be a relatively straightforward project for my first one, with only a few changes required to make it more C&O and less USRA;

Move the walkways up a bit, so they meet the cab at the bottom of window level and are continuous on both sides (at the moment, there is a gap to clear the air pump on the fireman's side)

Modify the cab sides to have the semi "sport cab" profile of the C-16

Add stirrup steps to the front ends of the walkways at the step from cylinder to main walkway

Move the headlight (this one worries me!) it is on top of the front ofthe smokebox now, I want to relocate it to the center of the smokebox door where C&O had it.

Decal it for the C&O (microscale decals are on hand already!)

The tender isnt perfect, but is quite close; in photos C&Os looks a good bit taller than the USRA one, with the top of the coal bunker being even with the cab roof, but a new tender or later modification can rectify that.

Today i stripped the pad printed roadnumbers and herald (It was lettered for B&M) with Q-tips and 91% alcohol, this worked very well. I hope to avoid damaging the factory paint on the smokebox and firebox, and simply be able to mask and touch up the black areas with an airbrush when I am done, but I will see how that goes. Removing markings isnt a big deal I know, but tomorrow I will be going to a hobby shop to get some styrene to do my modifications, and will take pics as I make changes to it.

Any ideas on moving the headlight? Hope i dont screw this thing up, but I guess we learn by doing!

edit; as i look at more pics, I see that some of the tenders are quite similar to the LifeLike one! So that problem is solved. If i do my part, this should be a very nice likeness of a C-16!
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 09:29:50 PM by 2-8-8-0 »
Just say no to dummy couplers.

Chris333

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Re: Chesapeake and Ohio C-16
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2010, 10:06:10 PM »
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Ideas:
http://daveayers.com/Modeling/LocoC-16.htm
Don't forget those over fire jets.

sizemore

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Re: Chesapeake and Ohio C-16
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2010, 09:03:52 AM »
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It appears that the void left by removing the headlight at the top of the smokebox gets replaced by the bell so you can "fudge" having to replace the curvature of the boiler with the bell bracket. The lightboard is directly behind the smokebox door so you can reuse the headlight from the model but you'll need to replace the "fiber" optic channel with clear Plastruct tube. The cab looks like an easy cut but the problem is the firebox is cut for the square cab, so you'll end up needing to either replace the FB sides for the void caused by making the "sport" cab (maybe etched replacements, the problem is making them removable to service the chassis at a later time). The fire-jets are probably the easiest thing to model. The tender is actually quite easy, the coal tender can be removed, and you can create new sides (or maybe even convince someone to make an etched peice to match rivet details), and glue it properly in place.

I'd like to see pics when you get it done!

The S.

2-8-8-0

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Re: Chesapeake and Ohio C-16
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2010, 09:30:06 PM »
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I will post pics, but this seems to be quite a project, perhaps more than i should be trying atm, but Ill try it anyways. The cab sides bother me, and I hadnt thought about the sides of the firebox, but i do want this to look right, so I will probably tackle it. Thanks for pointing out the overfire jets, I never noticed them on a proto photo, but they add a bit more detail.

The bell on the ones I have pics of is mounted behind the stack in the same place as it is on the model, so I had thought i would just leave it be. Filling and smoothing the small hole shouldnt be a huge problem, Ive done things like that before. This is a beautiful little loco, I hope I do it justice, I must admit there is some temptation to decal it for C&O and be done, but its good practice for modifying a 2-8-0 and a 2-8-2 I suppose (the tender for the 2-8-0 is a whole different story!)

Not sure what I will do about the firebox, the cab is quite noticeably different on the C-16.
Just say no to dummy couplers.

2-8-8-0

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Re: Chesapeake and Ohio C-16
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2010, 09:13:21 AM »
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Ok, on my proto photos (in the book C&O in the Coal Fields of West Virginia and Kentucky) the C-16s dont have overfire jets? The pics are late on the clock for steam, 1956, would they have been removed by this time?
Just say no to dummy couplers.

Chris333

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Re: Chesapeake and Ohio C-16
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2010, 01:03:29 PM »
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I'm not sure, but if you have pics of them removed in your era I would go with that.

Rasputen

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Re: Chesapeake and Ohio C-16
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2010, 09:09:34 PM »
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The March/April 1980, July 2003, and August 2003 issues of Mainline Modeler each have excellent photos and drawings of the C-16 0-8-0.

Mark5

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Re: Chesapeake and Ohio C-16
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2010, 10:38:11 PM »
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Interestingly I posted about kit-bashing one of these to a N&W S-1, but the search engine can't seem to find the posts ... 8)

Mark

Mark5

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Re: Chesapeake and Ohio C-16
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2010, 12:35:21 PM »
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jmlaboda

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Re: Chesapeake and Ohio C-16
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2010, 11:57:21 PM »
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Now what are you going to do to replicate a C&O Greenbrier... Ross Rowland is bringing C&O 614 back to service...
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/business/x1666007687/Greenbrier-owner-15M-tourism-train-in-works

2-8-8-0

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Re: Chesapeake and Ohio C-16
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2010, 09:53:19 PM »
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Meh. Ignore my prototype iz hard thread, back to sanity (or not!)

FIRST. I have a newfound respect for watchmakers, and people like Victor and Skipgear who regularly tear steamers apart down to each fiddly bit. You guys are devoted.

Second. I think Life Like decided they would come up with as user-irritating a design as they could muster. Im no Skip or Vic, but ive taken a few of these thangs apart, and wow, is this little 0-8-0 a pain in the a$$. To remove the boiler, you need to remove a little pressed in crossbar at the rear of the cab (no issue here) the "sides" of the ash pans (which, apparently, were glued on to begin with, and shall be again) and then either 1) fight with the steps/pilot or 2) remove the pilot. Well...

The pilot houses the cylinders. The cylinders are connected to 847 fiddly rotating parts that drive the thing (or in this case, look as if they drive it; LifeLike has gears on all axles) but are, nonetheless, a nightmare for the uninitiated (me) to put back together once it falls apart.

As an extra annoyance additive, the screw that holds the tender's drawbar to the engine dissapeared into lala land at some point in the operation (a screw, I may add, that I never touched...i should have, to remove it and put it somewhere SAFE) so LifeLike scores a giant thumbs down in the tender attachment dept. Bachmann set the mark for this, now the rest of you need to CLONE IT. Imagine, a world of steamers with interchangable tenders...and no screws to get lost...and 8 wheel electrical pickup...Bah.

So, the reason for doing all this is to remove the boiler. It is now off, and some butchery can begin. For starters, the cab will be modified to resemble C&Os "sport cab" and is, thankfully, only a press fit to the boiler shell, only held by two bent wire grabs cemented to the cab...well, rip em loose, we gotta do what we gotta do! The cab modification actually seems to be the easiest part of this, Ill post pics of the modified cab probably tomorrow-ish, as this is "gasp" actually an easy mod (once you remove the damn boiler, anyway!)

Blood pressure...steadily falling.
Just say no to dummy couplers.

Chris333

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Re: Chesapeake and Ohio C-16
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2010, 10:04:51 PM »
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I started with a 0-8-0 that didn't have steps/ladders up front. So the boiler slid right off. My ash pans were just a friction fit too, popped right off. Now I have steps (from a bachmann 2-8-0) so if I had to take it apart now I'd basically have to take the steps off to do it.

Here are some pics of mine exploded:
http://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/ErieRailroadC3080NScale
Here it is when I finally finished it:
http://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/NScale#5474033398744275602

If you are interested the motor is a Mashima with a Gizmo-zone gearhead added. This shows how slow it goes now:
/>
I ended up making a new drawbar that was attached in a different location with a 00-90 screw. I remember it had some crappy plug to the tender, I tossed all that in the trash.

victor miranda

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Re: Chesapeake and Ohio C-16
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2010, 10:27:08 PM »
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thanks for the honorable mention.

to do a steamer up to run smooth you have to take it apart
and put it back together a lot.

I think you may want to find Max Magliaro's posts about his work on the 0-8-0
on the atlas forum.  That man has the patience of a saint.

While I can help you get it running well,  for the modeling part
listen to skipgear he builds pretty locos
Also he does not ask for help to get them going so you can assume he has those skills too.

I have two 0-8-0's now and I have not opened either one.
they look scary to me.
(most do, the first time....)

you are doing fine.  you have a plan and vision.

victor




2-8-8-0

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Re: Chesapeake and Ohio C-16
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2010, 10:34:17 PM »
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Thanks for the help so far, and for the pics of the guts of your Erie 0-8-0, it looks quite nice. I love the tender mods you did! How did you get the walkways off? Another mod the C-16 wants (uuurgh, the more I study the pics, the more I find) is that the walkways on the C-16 seem to be mounted relatively high; even with the cab windows, with a stirrup step at the front of the walkways to get from the cylinders up on there. Too "C&O" for me to want to not try it, so one way or another, theyre comin' offa there!

Was the smokebox cemented, or just held by the railing and more or less of a "press fit"? Need to relocate the headlight too, and tbh thats the part I am least excited about.

Thanks Vic! So far it dosent bind or anything, so hopefully I got it back together good. Mine runs simply beautifully, I cant imagine it will be a real brute as far as pulling power, but nice enough I dont feel a need to remotor; Im more worried that my dissasembly of the valve bits will make something at some time screw up.
Just say no to dummy couplers.

Chris333

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Re: Chesapeake and Ohio C-16
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2010, 11:19:36 PM »
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Man it has been about 2 years, but it looks like there is some glue. The walkways have notches and I probably pushed them out from the inside. This leaves an open gap in the shell so you will need to fill that if you relocate.  To get the front off I'd try prying under the 3 tabs with a small flat screwdriver. Don't force anything! Might want to push the bell out first.

You can't use ACC debonder because it will melt the plastic!

I just took this so you can see what you'll end up with:


If you like how it runs I'd leave it. I thought it was fast, but change the motor and you might think it is too slow. BTW Max did all the leg work with the new motor. I just copied what he did.