Author Topic: Foobie and their effect on production  (Read 10066 times)

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Packer

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Re: Foobie and their effect on production
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2010, 09:54:15 PM »
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I'm in line with Dave and Lee on this one.

I'm, definently a bit more picky when picking home-road equipment. For foriegn road I'm not so picky and I'll pick up foobs from time to time (BAR X72, ATSF NE-12, etc) because they are either, nice, cheap, or a basis for a re-build.
Vincent

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Re: Foobie and their effect on production
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2010, 11:15:14 PM »
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I am well aware manufacturers need to make money, and that some things *especially in N scale* simply are not real high on their list of priorities. Lets pretend Im looking at hoppers for C&O or B&O, the questions I ask myself are;

1; Is it reasonably well detailed (not necessarily 100% C&O accurate, just its overall appearance)
2; does it match in form (OS twin, for example) the actual car or type? Right number of ribs? Right height? Ends close? Arched ends? what kinda Trucks?
3; Is it easy enough on the wallet for me to aquire as many as I require?
4: When its painted, decaled, and done, will someone look at it and think "C&O" or "VGN" or whatever?

Meets those criteria, close enough for me. Obviously certain very distinctive cars (B&O wagontops, for example) need to be...well, accurate. But for the general run of the mill hoppers/gons/boxcars for me, the above works nicely.

Id buy accurate ones if they were there, and not an insane amount more than what I can get now. But if my choice is a 30 dollar W-2A OS quad, or a 5 dollar painted and decalled Trix OS quad, I'll go with trix. At that level, only another diehard hopper expert would know the difference anyway.
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DaveB

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Re: Foobie and their effect on production
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2010, 06:39:05 AM »
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Id buy accurate ones if they were there, and not an insane amount more than what I can get now. But if my choice is a 30 dollar W-2A OS quad, or a 5 dollar painted and decalled Trix OS quad, I'll go with trix. At that level, only another diehard hopper expert would know the difference anyway.

I think this puts the situation pretty well.  A lot of it does come down to price points, that and volume.  The higher the price, the lower the volume.  We would all like to have custom work at knockoff prices.  Truth to tell, knockoff prices often win.  It doesn't make much sense to me to blame the manufacturers for this marketing reality.

On the bright side, there is an amazing amount of quality work out there, even though it isn't prototypically accurate for every paint scheme produced. 

trainbuff1

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Re: Foobie and their effect on production
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2010, 07:58:39 AM »
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I have always said if it is close enough it is good enough.. The foobie cars like the MTL Pres cars and all the others they do are well, you decide.. No and I mean no one is telling you to buy them.. I buy them but then I buy everything.. I don,t put them on the layout but I collect them.. 50% of the people that build layouts have no knowledge of prototype any way.. 40% of the others don't care.. So that leaves 10% that does.. You couldn't please some folks if you had a machine that would shrink tha actual car down to N Scale there would be someone that would say this is not right..

Most of the time the guys that are cutting products up are those that have nothing better to do..

Dave has been here and I respect him greatly.. His layout is awesome to say the least.. He once said some time ago that he liked my way of thinking or something like that.. You can't get rapped up in all this it will make you crazy :o..

I am not the best by far but I like what I have done and it works.. Its like the track thing.. You guys that have to have the 55 code track.. If you can lay it and it don't work then what good is it.. I would have went with it but I have alot of older things that I like to run thats why I didn't..

So lay off the foobie thing and buy the things you like or get another hobby.. You know as well as I do that you will never get all the cars you want it just won't happen.. :-\

Todd Treaster, NY,S&A's Pittsburgh Division :)

FrankCampagna

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Re: Foobie and their effect on production
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2010, 08:11:10 AM »
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We really could use a manufacturer of a broad range quality resin kits in n scale. There are a number in HO. Most N scale kit maker stick to either one model or region. Maybe N scale really is for RTR modelers. I quite a few foobies. Heck, my chosen railroad is a foobie. "If it feels good, it is good."

Frank

 
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Dave V

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Re: Foobie and their effect on production
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2010, 08:14:54 AM »
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Thanks, Todd.  My Enola Yard addition, though a mere postage stamp compared to what you've done, is a direct outgrowth of my visit to your layout.  There was just something almost giddy about seeing your yard packed with hundreds of cars in what amounted to a history of railroading in Pennsylvania.  I loved it.

And certainly prototype accuracy takes on a whole new meaning when you're railroading on the scale Todd is.  Not a one of us, no matter how accurate our fleet might be, has captured big-time railroading in the way Todd has with 100+ car trains the norm, taking very real clock time to navigate the Alleghenies.

I appreciate both ends of the TRW spectrum greatly, and probably fall somewhere in the middle.
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Philip H

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Re: Foobie and their effect on production
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2010, 08:33:48 AM »
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I'm with Todd on this one - modeling KCS I had to wait until I was in Graduate school before people started issuing KCS painted rolling stock - and yes, mist of the early pieces were foobies.  I had to wait until this centruy to get anything nearly correct.  Yet I still buy a lot of nearly ok "foobies" becasue I want to build and operate a model of the rails that inspried me as a kid.  If that means running 3 bay hoppers of coke when KCS ran four basy because I can get the three bays, I will.  If it means that I spend the nextten years detailing and decalling, I'll do that too, but the foobs can stand in nicely until then thank you very much.

Philip H.
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Re: Foobie and their effect on production
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2010, 09:50:47 AM »
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We really could use a manufacturer of a broad range quality resin kits in n scale. There are a number in HO. Most N scale kit maker stick to either one model or region. Maybe N scale really is for RTR modelers. I quite a few foobies. Heck, my chosen railroad is a foobie. "If it feels good, it is good."

Frank

I, and others have looked and even planned resin kits, however there has not been, to date  enough 'perceived' support for these type kits to risk the expense. 
They cannot be made as inexpensive as the China RTR stuff, and they are KITS. Resin kits are best for one-offs, the unusual and cars that are 'lesser known' by the modeling community.

HOWEVER - I am still working on some ideas that I hope will garner enough support for production of some N Scale resin kits. ......

Steven

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Re: Foobie and their effect on production
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2010, 09:54:06 AM »
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I have yet to visit Todd's, I hope to very soon...  But I would say that his layout exemplifies the old addage that with N Scale, you can model a RAILROAD, not just the trains.  With the volume of rolling stock he's accumulated, he's completely exempt from the argument that you can just convert your fleet to lo-pro's a few at a time... That would take him 30 years and a second mortgage on the house.  So code 80 it is!  Roll with it!

I fancy myself as the same type of railroader, although in a vastly smaller space... I was lucky enough to start out with c55, since I was switching most of my rolling stock out due to my era shift, it hasn't been that painful.

Anyway, back to topic, when you're modeling a transportation system, which I believe is how Steve puts it, there's less of a need to be swept up in 100% accuracy on your rolling stock.  You tend to think like a railroader, and less like an equipment manager.  That mill needs 3 50' boxcars with 10' doors to load with pallets of merchandise.  That might be the extent of it.  Or maybe there's 10 loads of coal sitting in a loader, and it needs an equal number of 70 ton hoppers.  It doesn't matter if the lettering is the right size, or the maintenance date is appropriate, or if the paint color is right.  I need those cars on the local now, get them on their way.

About the only superdetailing I'll do is change the road numbers on duplicates, and splash on some weathering.  Although, I confess, this one was pretty fun...


I've since replaced the plastic roofwalk with brass...

Lee
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Re: Foobie and their effect on production
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2010, 10:16:54 AM »
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I think too, those of us who haunt the boards tend to know a great deal about our specific fields of interest.  Many of us are driven to get thing as right as possible, others not so.  The market is fickle to say the least and trying to predict a trend will make you crazy.  Based on what we see, most folks collect the roads they like and are not as keyed in on wether or not it's the prototype car.  I have my bouts with rivet counting too, but when Bryan released his gon I had to redo it in SP...not a proto they used but it sure looks cool on the layout.  I'd love proto SP flats with their distinctive stake pocket layouts, but I doubt that will ever make the light of day in my lifetime...so I do with what I can get or convert.  Somewhere in another post here it was stated that 10% of the modelers are rivet counters and I think that's probably pretty close. 

But the nice thing about the purists is that they help push the hobby forward and more specific proto's make it to market based on that pressure.  Good for everyone!

Joe
MTL

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Re: Foobie and their effect on production
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2010, 10:19:47 AM »
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Hehe, I model N&W, and coal hoppers are essential .... for steam era there are two hoppers that are pretty accurate for 1937-early 1950s.

1) Atlas 55 ton fishbelly peaked end (ecellent match for N&W class HL)
2) MTL 091 style peaked (no notch!) rib side twin (good match for N&W class HK)

That's cool, but I don't model 1937-1950s. :o

The MTL 089 twin peaked notched rib is a good stand in for class H5 and H7, and in a pinch H9 (all twins). Many of these survived into the 60s and 70s.

For 70 ton three bay hoppers (N&W steam era) all N scale models fail. The only hopper that is even close (it's too long for starters) is the Athearn/MDC 3 bay rib side with "notched" peaked ends. It's a foob but it at least looks like a N&W hopper when properly lettered.

This would be a somewhat normal view of N&W hoppers in the 1950s:



For 1960s through 1990s, I've got it a bit better - two 100 ton hoppers available that are actually based on N&W prototypes. But as late as 1975 N&W still had over 12,000 70 ton peaked rib side hoppers in service.

Post 1964, you can pepper the fleet with some ex-NKP and ex-P&WV hoppers (offest side twins and triples).

I guess the long and the short of this is: short of scratchbuilding large numbers of hoppers, I gotta have foobs to some degree.

For boxcars and other types, its not all that much better in N. With the exception of the 40 and 50 foot "wagon top" boxcars (resin kits available) built PRR style and a X29 based class (The Red Caboose X29 is also a good stand-in for one N&W class), all N&W boxcar designs were homegrown until the PS-1 era.

We all are forced to pick and choose where we compromise in model railroading, and the smaller the scale the more this is true. It'd be great if we had code 45 rail, scale size couplers (that work!), a broad selection of diesel horns, and on and on - but we don't.

Mark




« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 10:42:14 AM by NandW »

FrankCampagna

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Re: Foobie and their effect on production
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2010, 10:30:15 AM »
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I am aware of the added cost. I just bought some Fine N Scale kits. The B&O wagontop, a couple of flats for my wreck train, a couple of X-29's. Would have gotten an X-31, but none in stock. Now I need paint.
Quote
I, and others have looked and even planned resin kits, however there has not been, to date  enough 'perceived' support for these type kits to risk the expense.
They cannot be made as inexpensive as the China RTR stuff, and they are KITS. Resin kits are best for one-offs, the unusual and cars that are 'lesser known' by the modeling community.

HOWEVER - I am still working on some ideas that I hope will garner enough support for production of some N Scale resin kits. ......

As someone stated, a vast majority of the transition era freight car fleet remains untouched. Because they were cars owned by one railroad, or a few railroads. This probably can't be done as a full-time business. Most HO manufacturers probably have a day job. The Carsten's series "Essential Freight Cars" is well past 100. Most can be at least kit bashed in HO. Almost none of these are available in N. Not even close approximations.

I'm planning to kit bash some MT USRA steel cars into the NYC version using Intermountain kit ends. Also have the CDS dry transfers for these.  Not dead on, but probably the best I can expect. It'll be a challenge, considering my pathetic fine motor skills. The end will probably not justify the effort, but at least I will have made the effort.

Let us know if you come up with something workable. You have at least one potential customer. 

Frank
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Re: Foobie and their effect on production
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2010, 06:48:45 PM »
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would love more foobies.Like Chessie SD90s or even a high Nose SD90 in southern or Norfolk Western.Heck,I got a spectrum 8-40CW painted in Chessie I pick up on Ebay.Not the best paint since someone also weathered it.Then I also have a BNSF U50 somewhere.I love my foobies.My world so anything goes.4-4-0s pulling double stacks.SD40-2s pulling log cars......


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Re: Foobie and their effect on production
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2010, 07:07:16 PM »
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Interesting cross section of opinion...Jason - wanna chime in ? I'd be interested in your take.
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Re: Foobie and their effect on production
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2010, 09:01:15 PM »
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Here's an example of my philosophy.  The Atlas Trainman C&O caboose is a very good model of its prototype.  Very well rendered, nicely painted, and weighted.  So they look and operate great for the price.  They're not correct for a Conrail class N5 cabin (which are the familiar Bowser Pennsy-style cabins), so I probably would have been on the fence about buying one.  In fact, I probably would have passed on it as I have on the ExactRail gon.

But a friend gave me one as a surprise gift, and with a little weathering, it's my second favorite CR cabin of the five I own.  It's a total foobie for Conrail, but you know what?  It looks great!  That, and it has the sentimental value of a gift.



So I blaspheme every time this little baby brings up the markers on a Trailvan train, and it feels good. ;D
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