Author Topic: Grab irons on diesels. Nice detail or headache?  (Read 10981 times)

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ednadolski

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Re: Grab irons on diesels. Nice detail or headache?
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2010, 03:13:32 PM »
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Hi Philip,

These are available in stores. Here's the link:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44924

I just picked up two packs (40 bits) this morning on the way home from work and there were five #87 bits in the bunch!

Donnell

Is that HF drill bit grab bag an internet only item?

Seems odd, since the page says "Sizes .032" to .128"".   The 0.032" would be a #67 (much too large for grabrions), and #80 bit is 0.0135" and a #87 bit is 0.0100"   ???

Maybe those five #87's are actually #67's?

Ed
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 03:15:04 PM by ednadolski »

DKS

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« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 04:16:44 PM by David K. Smith »

sizemore

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Re: Grab irons on diesels. Nice detail or headache?
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2010, 04:31:27 PM »
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Or, if you want to go smaller:

http://drillcity.stores.yahoo.net/5pcpacnewwir.html

They get brittle when you get really small. They almost require machine like precision.

The S.

sd80mac

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Re: Grab irons on diesels. Nice detail or headache?
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2010, 01:45:38 AM »
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Hi Ed,

I have purchased more than 20 of these sets over the course of five or more years, so believe me when I say that the printing on the package means nothing. I almost let that deter me from buying the very first set. However, when I saw that small #87 bit I went back the next day and bought five more sets. I use these bits most of the time when modeling in HO and N, inserted in to a Foredam-style flex-shaft tool.

Donnell

Seems odd, since the page says "Sizes .032" to .128"".   The 0.032" would be a #67 (much too large for grabrions), and #80 bit is 0.0135" and a #87 bit is 0.0100"   ???

Maybe those five #87's are actually #67's?

Ed

avel

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Re: Grab irons on diesels. Nice detail or headache?
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2010, 02:25:59 AM »
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BLMA #67 should be a 60 bulk pack I assume.  Also I've never seen the #59 in stock. In .007" at that. Is this a new product?
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AlkemScaleModels

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Re: Grab irons on diesels. Nice detail or headache?
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2010, 09:36:52 AM »
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I had some of those Drill City bits. Drilling by hand without a drill press caused them to break about as fast as a you can blink. The slightest lateral movement causes them to snap off. The large plastic ring on each bit did make inserting the bit and removing the it once broken much easier though.

For a runner loco, I would not change the handrails. The delrin handrails are much more robust. The metal hand rails get bent and look like heck after a while, even with their finer profile. Grabs, lift rings, shades, lights, fans, ditch lights, plow, MU cables, maybe some air piping are usually what i add to an N scale loco intended to be used and not just displayed.

ednadolski

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Re: Grab irons on diesels. Nice detail or headache?
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2010, 11:00:33 AM »
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The metal hand rails get bent and look like heck after a while, even with their finer profile.

Of course they can never be as rugged as Delrin, but with the phosphor bronze wire and soldered joints the wire handrails have held up fine for me.   It's easy enough to straighten things if/when they do get bent.  A little bit of extra care in handling is all it takes, and I don't mind paying that as the price for what is (to my eye at least) a dramatic improvement in appearance.

Ed

sd80mac

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Re: Grab irons on diesels. Nice detail or headache?
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2010, 11:05:40 AM »
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You can buy seven sets of the HF drill bits (140 bits) for the same $38.70 you'll spend on five individual of these bits:

http://drillcity.stores.yahoo.net/870100.html

and, you'll get at least ten #87s out of the bunch, along with some #85s, #83s, #82s, #81s, #80s, #79s, #78s, etc...

Donnell


How about these:

http://drillcity.stores.yahoo.net/6new80hssdrb.html

Or, if you want to go smaller:

http://drillcity.stores.yahoo.net/5pcpacnewwir.html
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 11:08:29 AM by sd80mac »

wcfn100

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Re: Grab irons on diesels. Nice detail or headache?
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2010, 11:50:02 AM »
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You can buy seven sets of the HF drill bits (140 bits) for the same $38.70 you'll spend on five individual of these bits:

http://drillcity.stores.yahoo.net/870100.html

and, you'll get at least ten #87s out of the bunch, along with some #85s, #83s, #82s, #81s, #80s, #79s, #78s, etc...

Donnell


How about these:

http://drillcity.stores.yahoo.net/6new80hssdrb.html

Or, if you want to go smaller:

http://drillcity.stores.yahoo.net/5pcpacnewwir.html

Five for $10 without the waste.

http://drillcity.stores.yahoo.net/870100resharp.html

Jason

GaryHinshaw

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Re: Grab irons on diesels. Nice detail or headache?
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2010, 09:40:22 AM »
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Question for you Gary:  in your pic below you have the grabs shaved off.  Which wire grabs are you planning on using, and how well do they match up size-wise compared to the "shadows" left by the cast-on grabs? 

PS that looks like a really neat job that you did, to remove those old fans!

Ed

Ed, finally got a chance to take a progress shot on the '70MAC.  For the rear grabs I used the BLMA 18" drop style, while the cast-on grabs are closer to 15".  I'm not sure why Kato does that because the proto photos sure look like 18" to me, and the front cast-on grabs are definitely 18".  I used the BLMA drill template for the holes, but I'm getting comfortable just using the "shadow" as a drill template.  In this case I lined the grabs with the right side of the cast-ons.  I took this shot under the harshest morning sun I could get to show some of the residual shadow crud on the shell.  Once it's faded & weathered it should be almost invisible, especially in "actual size".

I love these fan kits!  In cutting out the original fans I just followed Craig's video to the letter (linked above).  The key tool is a small circular file.

Craig, Henry's work is a continual source of inspiration.  Thanks for posting it.

-Gary

ednadolski

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Re: Grab irons on diesels. Nice detail or headache?
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2010, 10:34:41 AM »
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Gary, that some really impressive work!   Even in the enlarged image, I can barely tell where the old grabs were.  I think you're right, when the loco is faded/weathered, the old grabs will be virtually invisible.

A few quick questions:

 - I guess you used a #80 HSS bit? 
 - How did you position the drill template, and what did you use to hold it in place?
 - What paints did you use for the touch up?  Any tips on how you got such a good match?

Hope you don't mind, I've taken the liberty of linking your before & after shots here below, so that folks can see the difference.  This is the kind of work that sells itself!




Ed

mcjaco

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Re: Grab irons on diesels. Nice detail or headache?
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2010, 10:42:45 AM »
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I'd like to see more of that project, as I have the same unit waiting for details.  Really impressive work.

I found the ModelFlex BNSF green is pretty close to what Kato, Athearn, Atlas use.  The orange and the yellow, not so much.

Mark5

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Re: Grab irons on diesels. Nice detail or headache?
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2010, 10:49:30 AM »
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For the rear grabs I used the BLMA 18" drop style, while the cast-on grabs are closer to 15".  I'm not sure why Kato does that because the proto photos sure look like 18" to me, and the front cast-on grabs are definitely 18".


Because Kato is lazy about getting things right sometimes. For example, the number boards on the long hoods of the Kato SD40, SD40-2, and SD45 are too short (also on the Kato tooled Atlas GP30/GP35).

This is a pain the a$$ when you're trying to fit scale number board decals too them.

Mark
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 10:51:02 AM by NandW »

Sokramiketes

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Re: Grab irons on diesels. Nice detail or headache?
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2010, 11:03:02 AM »
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I had some of those Drill City bits. Drilling by hand without a drill press caused them to break about as fast as a you can blink. The slightest lateral movement causes them to snap off.

Yeah, Carbide is brittle.  The HSS #80 bits are very forgiving for hand drilling as they can take a pretty large side load before snapping.  I use them for filing small square holes sometimes, like adding an MU receptacle to the nose of a PA.  I drill around the perimeter and then file up and down with the side of the bit to connect the dots. 

Try that with Carbide and it will snap right off.

If anyone knows where to get HSS in smaller than #80, that would be cool.  Otherwise, sharpen a piece of music wire in the proper diameter and just pierce the shell.  That's what Vince Kotnik does when installing .004" dia wire grabs in Atlas shells.  You don't really need a drill to do these small holes.  And that way you can have a perfect fitting hole and not have grabs swimming in oversize #80 holes.

sizemore

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Re: Grab irons on diesels. Nice detail or headache?
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2010, 11:35:42 AM »
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Because Kato is lazy about getting things right sometimes. For example, the number boards on the long hoods of the Kato SD40, SD40-2, and SD45 are too short (also on the Kato tooled Atlas GP30/GP35).

This is a pain the a$$ when you're trying to fit scale number board decals too them.

Mark

Ahhhh yes the worst bane of my detailing nightmares.

The S.