Author Topic: 100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper  (Read 10751 times)

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Mark5

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100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper
« on: March 23, 2010, 11:35:26 PM »
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I've been examining options to equip the Atlas 100 ton hopper (for some reason Atlas calls these 90 ton hoppers  ::)) with 100 ton trucks.

When this tooling first came out it came with Bettendorf trucks (just like everything else!).

At some point (1990s I guess) Atlas started shipping these with 70 ton roller bearing trucks. Today they ship with 70 roller bearing trucks with Accumates.

Since these cars should have 100 ton roller bearing (RB) trucks, I've been trying various 100 ton RB trucks. In N scale this mostly means Atlas and BLMA. MTL does not make a 100 ton truck. Maybe Athearn makes one, but I have doubts about availability.

The first focus was Atlas. Atlas recently (well not that long ago) introduced a newer lower slung coupler box on the Thrall 4750 Trainman car. I'm pretty sure this is the one BLMA used on its Top Gons. So I popped a pair on the hopper - looks good! Put it on the track and roll it .... rub a dub on the inner axles (against the slope sheet for the outer bays). Drat. I suppose I could add a space washer to get clearance, but I want the cars to stay at the height they are (overall height closely matches drawings). Then I got this brilliant idea that maybe I could swap the Atlas 36" wheels from the Atlas 100T truck onto the Atlas 70 ton truck (the wheelbase on the 70 truck is shorter, so maybe the slight move of the inner axle towards the end of the car would be enough to eliminate the rubbing). But oddly to me, the 36" wheels would not roll freely in the 70 ton truck. So that shot down that idea.

I would like to try a FVM or similar 36" wheel in the Atlas 100 Ton truck - the smaller flanges might be enough to eliminate the rubbing. Will definately try this. 8)

Next I tried the BLMA 100 Ton RB truck. 8) I popped them on and sure enough they rubbed. Then I remembered that the BLMA truck has a lower "bolster area" than most N scale trucks so I decided a spacer washer was in order. I used one MT washer on each end and the result was a roller!

For your viewing here is a picture of the BLMA 100 Ton truck on a Atlas 100T hopper (the hopper on the right has MTL 70 ton RBs on it with the new "mid pros"):



Cool aint it?

Of course to use these I'd have to add coupler "pads" to both ends, and couplers too. I really like the look but I have a fleet and well  ... we'll see.

I suppose I could also try a 36" wheel in a MT RB truck (not entirely correct but at least I'd get 36" wheels) - stay tuned, will try this one night soon.

Mark

« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 11:45:58 PM by NandW »

Craig Martyn

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Re: 100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2010, 01:16:28 AM »
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Looking good Mark! 

As a quick side note:  I'm going to request that future re-stocks of our new trucks come with a plastic washer (spacer) for this very purpose.  Keep us posted on your efforts!
Craig Martyn
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Re: 100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2010, 11:44:27 AM »
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So the BLMA one have smaller flanges than the other? Guess I'll pick up some for my cars that rub.

Mark, I have an N&W hopper with the number 92000...
Vincent

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Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: 100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2010, 12:10:52 PM »
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I've had this same problem when putting 100t trucks in these cars. I think my solution was to wimp out and go with 33" wheels (because I have some of them floating around).

inkaneer

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Re: 100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2010, 12:12:15 PM »
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I once called the Atlas hoppers 100 ton hoppers when the MTL 100 ton hoppers came out and received a verbal drubbing by several people.  I never got the MTL hoppers to compare them so I don't know the difference between them but it's bugging the hades out of me.    

Mark5

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Re: 100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2010, 12:22:07 PM »
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I once called the Atlas hoppers 100 ton hoppers when the MTL 100 ton hoppers came out and received a verbal drubbing by several people.  I never got the MTL hoppers to compare them so I don't know the difference between them but it's bugging the hades out of me.   

Both the MT and Atlas hoppers are based on the N&W H11a through H11e series. These are 100 ton hoppers.

When N&W first built them in 1963, they were rated at 95 tons, but not long after that N&W rerated the early production to 100 tons.

Mark
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 12:27:37 PM by NandW »

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: 100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2010, 12:24:14 PM »
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I'm guessing it's just a holdover from ye olden days of N scale when calling something a "50' Modern Boxcar" was the road to fame and riches.

Mark5

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Re: 100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2010, 12:26:22 PM »
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Mark, I have an N&W hopper with the number 92000...

Here's the real 92000:

http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2125.jpeg

Mark

wazzou

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Re: 100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2010, 02:25:18 PM »
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Those trucks do look great on that car Mark.  I hope that load is routed to the washer.  Don't you guys in the East wash your coal?
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Mark5

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Re: 100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2010, 10:43:40 PM »
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I hope that load is routed to the washer.  Don't you guys in the East wash your coal?

Bryan, that car is loaded with a special "plastic coal" from an unknown location. I can assure you future loads will be more authentic. ;)

Mark5

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Re: 100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2010, 10:54:23 PM »
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Ok, a little more experimentation tonight (I'm lazy and tired tonight so no pix).

First, I compared a hopper with the "stock" Atlas trucks to one that was fitted with MTL RB trucks (33"). Interestingly, simply putting the MTL trucks on increased the car height an inch or so. I think it has to do with the "bolster" section of the MTL tuck rising toward the center while the Atlas truck is flat in that area.

Next, I removed the MTL trucks and fitted them with the new MTL 36" wheels. Good news! The wheels fit and spin freely. Thus equipped, I re-installed the MTL trucks on the hopper. As I suspected, the shorter sideframes on the MTL 70 ton RB truck mean that with the 36" wheels no clearance problems. :D As expected, the MTL trucks with 36" wheels raised the car another inch or so (predicted increase would be 1.5" due to the larger wheels). As a result the overall car height increased about 3" over the "stock" Atlas hopper. The overall appearance is improved compared to "stock" but not quite as nice as the BLMA option.8) And of course 36" wheels in a 70 ton sideframe is "wrong", but so are 70 ton trucks on a 100 ton hopper.  ;) If I were to use this on my fleet I would have to take a little off the bolsters to bring this hopper in line with prototype height.

The MTL solution would be cheaper, which may be factor to the fleet supervisor.

I will post some pics later this week.

Mark
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 10:57:45 PM by NandW »

Sokramiketes

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Re: 100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2010, 07:54:26 AM »
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I think it would look even better if you moved the bolster closer to the ends like it's supposed to be!  Compare to the photo of 92000 that you posted. 
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Mark5

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Re: 100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2010, 09:54:48 AM »
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I think it would look even better if you moved the bolster closer to the ends like it's supposed to be!  Compare to the photo of 92000 that you posted. 

Dammit -  good eye.  8)

Here's a better side view of an H11c:
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2367.jpeg

I wonder how many modelers would move bolsters on 50+ cars ...
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 10:10:49 AM by NandW »

wazzou

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Re: 100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2010, 12:10:00 PM »
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The problem with moving the bolsters outboard is...you would have to have 48" radius curves so that the trucks didn't hit the stirrups.  I think that is a compromise in our scale dating to the 9-3/4" era.
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inkaneer

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Re: 100 Ton truck options for Atlas 100 ton open hopper
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2010, 12:48:09 PM »
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It seems that nothing is easy and simple.  Even on a simple thing as a piece of rolling stock we find that several compromises [deviations from the prototype] have been made to arrive at the final product.  So addressing one of them does not solve the whole problem.  You got to address all of them and that becomes time consuming and expensive.  Let's face it the Atlas 90 ton hopper is a basic staple of the industry due to price and availability.  People tend to have a lot more than one or two because no one can have enough coal hoppers.  I got around a hundred or so and while I did put MTL truck/couplers and lo pros on them that will be the extent of my investment.  I'll leave that to who ever buys my stuff after I am out of here.