Author Topic: 2-8-8-0 running gear, donor locos for 8 coupled driver mechanisms?  (Read 4550 times)

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2-8-8-0

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The goal; to build a fleet of B&O EL class 2-8-8-0s that, while not needing to be perfect, need to be closer to the prototype than a P2K 2-8-8-2 with the trailer truck removed. (This has been an off and on project for about 2 years, not much success as of yet)

The plan; to use a pair of 2-8-2 (or 2-8-0) mechanisms to build the chassis and running gear (the P2K 2-8-8-2s have incorrect cylinders and are a bit expensive to tear into bits)

The issues; I need to be able to power both sets of drivers from 1 motor, obviously in the case of an articulated through a series of shafts and universals, to a worm and gear setup on one axle per set of drivers. The rear driver set will be rigidly mounted, the front will be hinged at the rear, as in the prototype.
My specific questions if anyone can help;

1) Do you know what sort of drive Kato's mikados use? Is it a system that would lend itself to dissasembly? Or perhaps the spectrum 2-8-0s? I need a mechanism that will lend itself to dissasembly, have an axle that will allow the mounting of a gear to drive with a worm, and hopefully be easy to reverse wheel set orientation, so one driver set picks up power from one rail, the other driver set, from the other rail (in addition to the tenders, which, luckily, i have figured out, thanks spectrum for the Vandy tenders!)

Anyone else that has ever done a kitbash of an articulated? The obvious starting point is the P2k 2-8-8-2, but at the price they dont really give me much to work with (plus im not crazy about both engines being swivelled) and I hope to build about 10 of these things...

I guess in a nutshell, what loco would you use if you wanted to combine 2 of 'em into one mallet mechanism?

In over my head perhaps....
Just say no to dummy couplers.

victor miranda

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Re: 2-8-8-0 running gear, donor locos for 8 coupled driver mechanisms?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2010, 11:18:22 PM »
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I write to tell you I am thinking about your problem.

no matter which way I turn I find I hit a big snag.

why not pick the RR 2880 off e-bay?
I know you might not like that price.
but two 2-8-0s are going to get close.

it is far less effort to buy them.

how are you going to build a shell?

If you are going to run this loco on n-scale track and curves and grades
you will want both engines swivling.

all that said.
I think the cheapest source of drivers
is the atlas/rr 0-8-0
you are going to have to make the engine frames in any case.
start simple.

v






chessie system fan

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Re: 2-8-8-0 running gear, donor locos for 8 coupled driver mechanisms?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2010, 12:43:29 AM »
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RMC had plans of the EL-5 class way back when.

I'm probably going to make one myself one day.
Aaron Bearden

SkipGear

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Re: 2-8-8-0 running gear, donor locos for 8 coupled driver mechanisms?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2010, 01:15:02 AM »
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The options for an 8-8 anything are limited. Building one from scratch is even more of a challenge. With any choice you make, you will have deal with close enough.

The LL/Walthers Y-3 is probably the closest mechanism to start with. The driver sizes are better for an EL anything. The ConCor/RR Y-6 is the most robust mechanism and the easiest to kitbash but the drivers are too large. The loco that I haven't had a hands on to measure yet is the Atlas/Samhongosa USRA 2-8-8-2. That loco may be the best starting point but they are hard to come by and of questionable running qualities.

No matter which mechanism you pick, you will need to scratch build the boiler. None of the mallet boilers resemble anything B&O.

The best option, which is something I am doing for an EM-1, another B&O favorite, is to transplant a second rear engine to the front.



The EM-1 is based on a pair of Big Boys merged. Fortunately, it seems all the damaged Big Boys out there fell and broke the front engine which I don't need in the conversion anyhow.

I have a handfull of the RR 2-8-8-2's to try this with to make an EL but other projects need to be finished before proceeding with them.
Tony Hines

2-8-8-0

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Re: 2-8-8-0 running gear, donor locos for 8 coupled driver mechanisms?
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2010, 05:54:17 PM »
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RR made a 2-8-8-0 in N? I thought it was only in HO...and isnt that just a USRA 2-8-8-2 with the trailer truck removed anyways?

I dont plan to run these on smaller than a 30" radius, so having the rear engine rigidly mounted isnt such an issue, and it simplifies (as much as something like this can be called *simple*) the engineering of driveshafts. That being said, I wouldnt hesitate to use an existing 2-8-8-2 mechanism, but the front cylinders and plumbing on those is totally wrong, which would mean not only replacing them, but also fiddling with valve gear, something I would really like to avoid.

Thanks for the posts though, the eventual *hoped for* goal is to have a fleet of ELs, plus a few EM1s and old LL1s (for these, the 2-8-8-2s would work, at least the mechanisms) but the EL is definately a priority; the EM1s wandered farther from home, and the LL1s were pretty much permanently stationed at M&K junction by 1948, only working as pushers up Cranberry.

After the mallets, some Q4bs and P1ds will be the next projects, but I dont anticipate much trouble with either of them. The options for 8-8 anything are, indeed, limited, and kind of overwhelming...I like a challenge, but i also hope to complete 7 or 8 of these...

Ill post pics of any progress, as well as photos of mechanisms as I get them. The old atlas 0-8-0s will be the first attempt, id prefer to use Kato 2-8-2s as...well, as 2-8-2s.

Thanks much so far folks, Id love to hear any further ideas or imput!

PS> Skipgear, where did you get the EM-1 print? That is much better than any of mine! I have a similar print in my copy of Magnificient EM-1, but it is smaller and has no dimensional info.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 05:57:33 PM by 2-8-8-0 »
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SkipGear

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Re: 2-8-8-0 running gear, donor locos for 8 coupled driver mechanisms?
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2010, 06:20:33 PM »
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Modifying / transplanting valve gear is much easier than building a complete mechanism in my opinion. I tried to build a logging 0-6-6-0 a long time ago out of a couple of the Bachmann 0-6-0's. I eventually gave up powering the front engine and the result was a loco that could barely pull itself, let alone a train. The drivers on the RR 0-8-0 are awfuly small for an EL aren't they? Also, there were EL's that were compound articulated so if you choose the right loco, you can get away with the large front steam chests.

The RR 2-8-8-0 was just a Y6 with the trailing truck removed and a B&O vanderbuilt tender installed. For it's time, not a bad likeness. I still hunt down the CC/RR vanderbuilt tender because it is an accurate B&O tender, one of the few things out there right for B&O.

The EM-1 drawing is scanned and stitched together from the Kalambach book, Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia. I also have a fairly large print of one that came from Historic Rail.

I'm not afraid of building valve gear, or whole loco's but at some point you just have to let some things slide.







The valve gear on the S-1 is wrong but it is still easilly recognizable as and S-1.



Sad as it is, the only 100% correct B&O loco out there is the Bachmann USRA 0-6-0, with some tender swaps.



Tony Hines

chessie system fan

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Re: 2-8-8-0 running gear, donor locos for 8 coupled driver mechanisms?
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2010, 07:29:54 PM »
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Is there a specific class you want to do?    Compare http://www.nscalesupply.com/Lif/LIF-LocomotiveY-3-2-8-8-2.html

These look as close (to me) as you'll get from a stock loco.

EL-2a  http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo7212s.jpg

EL-3a  http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo7124s.jpg

Aaron Bearden

2-8-8-0

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Re: 2-8-8-0 running gear, donor locos for 8 coupled driver mechanisms?
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2010, 09:49:37 PM »
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Yeah, a few of them were left as compound, but out of the 90 B&O had, I think only 3 or 4 remained compounds after about 1925. EL1, 2, 3 and 5 were all very very similar (to be honest, i have no idea at all what the difference is, aside a small difference in weight between the 4 classes) so if i can get "close enough" ill call it good, one model can easily fill the position of all 4 classes. They have always been my favorite engines, but im not going to hold my breath that anyone will ever produce one in N, even in brass. The EM1 i could see happening someday, but not their less famous (though much more important and longer lived) types.

I managed to find the RMC with the 2-8-8-0 plans on that auction site, I figure that cant hurt. Im not so scared of building the boiler and cab, but small fiddly assemblies like the drivers and valve gear worry me. I also wasnt aware that the old RR loco had the correct tender, I never looked that close either; tenders shouldnt be too hard to scratchbuild, and luckily I have a copy of Q that has loads of tender diagrams. Plus I have several of the Bachmann vandy tenders (think they came with some C&O loco) that should be about right for a 20 ton/18000 gallon tank. That being said...anyone have any extra CC tenders?

Basically, if i can get 2 sets of drivers under one frame, with simple cylinders, i dont care what the donor engine(s) are, though i would prefer to not use those lifelike locos simply due to their price. If i can find a good way to assemble/modify the chassis, the rest will be easy (by comparison) methinks.

Skipgear, Love the S1. Seeing stuff like that makes me think "maybe this IS possible..."

Thanks much folks.
EDIT. I have no idea why half my post is in italics...sorry about that!
Just say no to dummy couplers.

SkipGear

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Re: 2-8-8-0 running gear, donor locos for 8 coupled driver mechanisms?
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2010, 11:01:04 PM »
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There have been 2 Bachmann Vanderbuilts so far in N scale. Neither are close to anything B&O. The first was the vandy that came with the first 2-8-2/2-8-0 and is now used on the SP version of the 4-8-4 Northern. The more recent is the Spectrum C&O VC-12 Vandy that came on the C&O Hvy. Mountain. It is very distictly a C&O tender. I bought some with the intention of B&O'izing them. Unfortunately, it would be less work to scratch build new ones. With the RR tender being an actuall B&O model, there is no need to go to the work. There will be a new Vanderbuilt coming with the C&O H-4 loco shortly. It is a shorter 8 wheel C&O VC-8 (?). I'm hoping it may lend itself to becoming a B&O a little easier. Dimi Trains also offered the B&O Vanderbuilt that ConCor used as a kit. They are hard to come by though.

The tender shown on the back of the S-1 is the RR/Concor vanderbuilt. That tender showed up on EL's, Q's, S's and some mountains if I remember correctly. The tender to me is a more important spotting feature than the valve gear.
Tony Hines

2-8-8-0

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Re: 2-8-8-0 running gear, donor locos for 8 coupled driver mechanisms?
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2010, 10:45:22 AM »
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Thanks for the info on the tenders skip, I had hoped to use the C&O ones (the heavy mountain one) for the larger B&O tank, but i will just keep my eyes open for the CC ones; railfest is next weekend, maybe  i can get some pieces and parts there.

The five C&O tenders i have, maybe ill put them up for trade or something.

I agree that the tender is a much more important feature than valve gear, I basically dont care what sort of valve gear the locos have, i just dont think i want to try and modify it (it being the valve gear) yet; if I get a mechanism that is otherwise workable, with the wrong valve gear, ill live with it.

I think the features that make a loco "look" B&O (obviously, all of them!) but the biggest are;

The vandy tenders with 4 axles, and their very B&O shape
The cab
The off center bell
The "baldwin" overall look (someone that knows NOTHING about the B&O, or even trains in general, could look at a Q4, S1, EL3, LL1, P1, etc and just know they were all from the same company) hard to pin down, but just like the pennsy's locos, they just have a family look.

Thanks much for the imput, gave me quite a bit of food for thought, and even a few ideas. Now, dont suppose you have a good source for decals for N-scale B&O hoppers...?

Contemplating "B&Oness"....
Just say no to dummy couplers.