Author Topic: Reverser control question  (Read 1344 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

wm3798

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 12859
  • Gender: Male
  • I like models. She likes antiques. Perfect!
  • Respect: +1152
    • Western Maryland Railway Western Lines
Reverser control question
« on: February 24, 2010, 09:36:44 AM »
0
I've been studying my newly minted track plan, and it occurs to me that I can't set up a mind numbing continuous run without dealing with some reversing situations and some turnout control.  The reversing bit is easy enough.  I just have to get another reverser to deal with the new Connellsville loop.  But between Maryland Jct. and the helix down to staging, it's a single track run, which means there's a turnout  that will need to be synchronized with the reverser.

My question is, can I wire the reverser to fire the switch machine at the same time it changes the polarity of the route?  I'm assuming that I'll need an A/C twin coil to keep the juice characteristics consistent, although if there's a way to work it with a Tortoise, that would be much preferred.  Here's the track plan of the staging for reference:



The particular turnout in question is the one located just before the helix over the workbench area.  It would need to throw to the right track as the train approaches the helix, and to the left as it comes back out.

The east staging is less problematic, as the line out of there remains double tracked all the way around through the yard, Cumberland, and Maryland Jct, although at Luke, the west end of MY, I'd need that one to throw too.  That one is far enough away from the staging loop, though, that it could work on some sort of detection circuit.

I throw it out there to the wizards...  For materials you have a Tortoise switch machine, several Atlas snap switches with DPST's built in, a roll of duct tape, two coat hangers, and an old neck tie.  And you have 3 minutes to figure it out before the layout self-destructs...

Let me know what you come up with... :D

McGyver
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

mmyers

  • The Pitt
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 897
  • Respect: +27
Re: Reverser control question
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2010, 08:14:25 PM »
0
Lee,

Simple solution is to isolate Connellsville staging and the helix just after the turnout in question. Let the autoreverser handle phase for that whole section. Turnout gets wired to the main as normal. Tortoise would work to power the frog as always.

John uses the extra contacts on a tortoise to reverse phase in his oNetrak loop. The one that's part of his home empire. No autoreverser needed the way it's wired. Not sure the tortoise contacts could handle the extra current that may be needed in a staging yard, though. That would really depend on how much activity (moving trains) in the yard.

Martin Myers

John

  • Administrator
  • Crew
  • *****
  • Posts: 10694
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +432
Re: Reverser control question
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2010, 08:16:31 PM »
0
Martin .. I actually have an AR1 in there .. but I can understand why you would have missed that .. I haven't dragged it to a setup in almost a year  :'(

John

  • Administrator
  • Crew
  • *****
  • Posts: 10694
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +432
Re: Reverser control question
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2010, 08:17:29 PM »
0
Lee .. I agree with Martin .. make the whole loop a reversing section .. you could also put in a Hare ..

wm3798

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 12859
  • Gender: Male
  • I like models. She likes antiques. Perfect!
  • Respect: +1152
    • Western Maryland Railway Western Lines
Re: Reverser control question
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2010, 08:19:55 PM »
0
here's the object of the game though...  I want to be able to set up a train to run the main circuit from east staging to Connellsville then complete the loop without having to pay attention to it.  In other words, when the train hits the reverser, the turnout automatically throws to let it back out onto the main running in the opposite direction.  Is there a way to rig the the Tortoise to the reverser as well to make that happen?  Is that what the Hare does?
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

John

  • Administrator
  • Crew
  • *****
  • Posts: 10694
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +432
Re: Reverser control question
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2010, 08:37:36 PM »
0

wm3798

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 12859
  • Gender: Male
  • I like models. She likes antiques. Perfect!
  • Respect: +1152
    • Western Maryland Railway Western Lines
Re: Reverser control question
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2010, 08:53:58 PM »
0
Well that presents some interesting possibilities!

Thanks for the tip!
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

mmyers

  • The Pitt
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 897
  • Respect: +27
Re: Reverser control question
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2010, 08:55:39 PM »
0
Martin .. I actually have an AR1 in there .. but I can understand why you would have missed that .. I haven't dragged it to a setup in almost a year  :'(

Never noticed that. I thought that was an accessory decoder.

Martin

John

  • Administrator
  • Crew
  • *****
  • Posts: 10694
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +432
Re: Reverser control question
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2010, 08:57:52 PM »
0
Martin .. I actually have an AR1 in there .. but I can understand why you would have missed that .. I haven't dragged it to a setup in almost a year  :'(

Never noticed that. I thought that was an accessory decoder.

Martin

The AR1 is in the end module .. there is an accessory decoder in the middle module for the tortoises ..

wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7679
  • Oh, it's an Owl!
  • Respect: +517
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Re: Reverser control question
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2010, 09:05:13 PM »
0
Even with the Hare someone or something has to throw the turnout at some point.

The problem with using the reverser to throw the turnout is that it will only work when leaving the staging.  You still need to reset the turnout for the incoming trains.

To get what you what as far as operation, the easiest thing by a long shot is to use a spring switch and an auto reverser.  That way all trains coming in will go the route you want and you just let the auto reverser do whatever it has to.

If you don't care which way the trains come in or out, you can do that with two sensors to throw the switch.

Jason


John

  • Administrator
  • Crew
  • *****
  • Posts: 10694
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +432
Re: Reverser control question
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2010, 09:10:28 PM »
0
Even with the Hare someone or something has to throw the turnout at some point.




Jason .. how so?

Here is Tony's review

Quote
The Auto Throw™ is an impressive feature that has the ability to align the switch points set the wrong way as a train approaches, preventing a short or derailment. Auto Throw is also ideal for automating Reverse Loop Turnouts.


so, any train in his staging loop, when it approaches the turnout, will throw the points correctly ..

The rest of the loop polarity is controlled by the reverser ..

wm3798

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 12859
  • Gender: Male
  • I like models. She likes antiques. Perfect!
  • Respect: +1152
    • Western Maryland Railway Western Lines
Re: Reverser control question
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2010, 09:10:58 PM »
0
John, the question is how do the points get reset for the next in-bound train after the outbound train clears.

I've thought about that, but I've also thought about the basic physics of N scale rolling stock, and I can't help but wonder if I can get a spring that's stiff enough to hold the route for the facing point move, but loose enough the let a train pass through the trailing point without causing problems...  Maybe some sort of photovoltaic detector?  If wired in a series (he says in an attempt to sound like he even remotely knows what he's talking about) if the detector that's before the switch is activated first, the switch throws to the right, and if the sensor in the outbound track hits first, the switch throws to let the train out...  Thoughts?

Or more importantly, parts list and wiring diagram?

 ;D
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

John

  • Administrator
  • Crew
  • *****
  • Posts: 10694
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +432
Re: Reverser control question
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2010, 09:13:46 PM »
0
John, the question is how do the points get reset for the next in-bound train after the outbound train clears.



why do you need to reset if you are doing mindless roundy round .. the next train in just takes the route set, and comes out the other end, where the hare then throws the switch before the loco shorts it out ..

wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7679
  • Oh, it's an Owl!
  • Respect: +517
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Re: Reverser control question
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2010, 09:14:38 PM »
0
Even with the Hare someone or something has to throw the turnout at some point.




Jason .. how so?

Here is Tony's review

Quote
The Auto Throw™ is an impressive feature that has the ability to align the switch points set the wrong way as a train approaches, preventing a short or derailment. Auto Throw is also ideal for automating Reverse Loop Turnouts.


so, any train in his staging loop, when it approaches the turnout, will throw the points correctly ..

The rest of the loop polarity is controlled by the reverser ..


But Lee wants all trains go come in the same way.  When a train leaves it throws the turnout but now it's thrown the wrong way for the next incoming train.  If Lee doesn't care which way they come in or out, then it would work.


There is way to do this with three sensors and some logic, but I don't know what Lee's interest is in that.

edit:  Atlas c80 turnouts (used to) work well as a spring switch (It's been a while).

Jason

wm3798

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 12859
  • Gender: Male
  • I like models. She likes antiques. Perfect!
  • Respect: +1152
    • Western Maryland Railway Western Lines
Re: Reverser control question
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2010, 09:16:24 PM »
0
Right hand running is SOP... Not to be violated....  We run a tight ship on the WM!

Actually, on the main line, there will be a long siding, which if occupied, will simply be set to run by, regardless of direction.  But in the staging balloons, it'll be important to maintain some continuity as to how trains go in and go out.  Between sessions there might be some brain cells that die, and I don't want to have to remember where I left my toys...

There were actually quite a few spring switches on the WM along the Potomac line between Cherry Run and Old Town.  Maybe I'll do some experiments.

Lee
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 09:18:41 PM by wm3798 »
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net