Author Topic: EUREKA! Gentlemen, start your junk boxes...  (Read 3248 times)

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wm3798

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Re: EUREKA! Gentlemen, start your junk boxes...
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2010, 11:37:02 PM »
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Here's the updated view showing the track plan for staging, more or less as its coming together.  The red arrows indicate the flow through the loop, with the outbound throat being the one on the right. 



As noted, the stub storage yard comes off of the outbound track AFTER the floating turnouts.  All of the turnouts in the stub yard will be controlled.  As such, in the event of an uncoupling, I could A) back the front half of the train into stub storage then use the engines to retrieve the lost cars, or B) keep a switcher below decks that can be sent into the hole to clean up any messes.

Based on my experience with the hidden storage on the east end, I don't think there will be problems with any degree of frequency, but Mr. Murphy was indeed a model railroader, so I'll be putting some more thought into this...

Thanks,
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

MichaelWinicki

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Re: EUREKA! Gentlemen, start your junk boxes...
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2010, 11:24:15 AM »
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I dunno Lee... How accessible is all that trackage going to be?

I see that access hole there but is it truly going to make things accessible?

I only have a small amount of hidden trackage on my pike and even the parts that are semi-hidden can be a pain in the arse. 

You mentioned "Murphy" in an earlier post, well Murphy loves hidden or semi-hidden trackage most of all.  ;)

DKS

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Re: EUREKA! Gentlemen, start your junk boxes...
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2010, 11:43:03 AM »
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Just a suggestion... why not reverse the normal direction of travel though this yard? This would place the floating turnouts closer to the front edge, making them more accessible. It would mean only having to relocate the switch were the stub ladder connects to the through track. Reversing direction would also place the stopping points for the staged trains on the front tracks, making it easier to spot them as well as see which trains are where. As for having a little switcher on hand to help push out disconnects or deal with other problems, you could add a short stub track ahead of the inbound ladder to store it.
 
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 11:53:31 AM by David K. Smith »
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sizemore

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Re: EUREKA! Gentlemen, start your junk boxes...
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2010, 12:02:32 PM »
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I'll second the spring switch suggestions....



Simple to do with a piece of .010 Phosphor bronze wire soldered to the rail. It doesn't take much tension at all but it takes some. C80 #6's are bad about picking the points as is, they need tension against the rail for a backing move. The problem is, with a backing move, you better not have passed the next switch or you won't be able to get back in if the other turnouts are also spring switches. If it is going to be hidden staging, you won't know you lost anything until it is too late more than likely.

I really like this idea, my only concern is properly weighted cars.... I had multiple sprung switches on the BYR pending the install of Blue Points and I'd always have some light car blowout because the sprung points would be too much force compared to the dynamics of the car (weight, wheelset, force etc).

The S.

wm3798

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Re: EUREKA! Gentlemen, start your junk boxes...
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2010, 12:07:54 PM »
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A thoughtful consideration, David.  But this way, the outbound trains will be on the outer loop of the helix, affording them a slightly easier grade and broader radius to make their two trips around the Mulberry Bush a tad easier.

There is only about a 30" reach from a seated position at the dispatch desk, so I'm not worried about access.

The throats are in, save for the one turnout I need, so at this point, it's up to gravity and friction at this point.  Again, there will be much testing before the yard gets installed above it.

Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

wm3798

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Re: EUREKA! Gentlemen, start your junk boxes...
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2010, 04:13:14 PM »
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Here's the throat as it's coming together...


The inbound tracks have a nice flow to them, I think.  The inside track has the longest switch lead to compensate for the shortest radius at the balloon.  If I get a chance tonight I'll set up some trains to see what the true capacity of each track is, including three engines and a caboose.

Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

Philip H

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Re: EUREKA! Gentlemen, start your junk boxes...
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2010, 04:56:44 PM »
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Nice progress Lee.  Don't forget to build Ed's yardmaster's desk while you have the lid off, so to speak.   ;)
Philip H.
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randgust

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Re: EUREKA! Gentlemen, start your junk boxes...
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2010, 09:10:49 PM »
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Lee, I've had a 'one way in - one way out' staging yard in operation now for 25 years.  All my outbound points on old Atlas C80 switches just float, except for the two key switches off the layout into the staging yard.  You've seen my track plan.

I've added a BUNCH of safeties though to eliminate the stupid operator tricks:

1)  indicator lights on the panel on which way the key junction switches are set.  I use Rix machines with extra contacts.
2) interlocked blocks so that a train coming against a trailing-point switch set against it shuts the power off until the switch is properly set.
3)  A locomotive-length 'stop block' at the end of each staging yard storage track with a light bulb IN SERIES between the stop block so that when the train is all the way into the storage track the light comes on.  Then shut the track power off, you know exactly where the locomotive is.
4) a momentary pushbutton across that same stop block to HOLD DOWN to get the train powered back out of the stop block, no accidental double starts, even with the track powered on.
5)  a diode on the ENTIRE YARD with an emergency pushbutton switch on it so that you can't accidentally back out instead of pulling ahead.  If you do have to back up, you have to hold that button down.  It's like a safety.  No 'oops'.
6) I use cabooses, so if a train comes out without one, I've dropped cars.  I have enough access panels that I'll just put the train around a second time, push the track clear, re-arrange the train, and do-over.  I DO NOT back into those floater switches unless the access panels are down and I can watch it.  Surprisingly, they do push over and lock OK with out a machine.  No springs.

You can come up with a lot of reasons why it 'won't work' I'm just telling you it does.  One thing you don't want to do is depend on rail joiners for electrical continuity - I put jumpers around everything.  Also run the wheels off of it for a few MONTHS before you put the top on it, get all the bugs out.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 09:16:15 PM by randgust »

wm3798

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Re: EUREKA! Gentlemen, start your junk boxes...
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2010, 11:01:37 PM »
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Actually, Randy, I had your staging in mind when this thought hit me.  Mine should be pretty easy to idiot-proof, and I'm thinking the way to do that is with the push button stop blocks you describe, to keep trains from venturing too far into the floaters, and by making the switch at the top of the helix a spring switch, so the natural preset is to the right.  Another precaution might be to put a cross over from the outbound track back to the inbound, to allow an escape route back to the inbound track should the spring switch fail, or if a powered turnout at the top ends up being more practical.  This would also facilitate the reverse move to clear a track in the event of an uncoupling.

With DCC, there's a greater possibility of something starting off in the wrong direction, since the operator controls the direction (and we all know my operators are usually pretty well-lubricated) but with a little planning and proper settings of the consists, that shouldn't be a big issue.

I'm also in the caboose camp, as well as a card flipper, so I'll be able to tell if a train is complete or not when it comes out of the hole.

I was able to check the two outer tracks (I need one more turnout to complete the other two) and the capacity works out to about 36 50' cars on track one, and 34 on track two, allowing for the three six axle diesels that would most likely occupy the space.  David's suggestion of a switcher pocket has me thinking evil thoughts about using a helper to heft these big heavy trains up out of staging...  The dispatcher could be the helper engineer....

Lee
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 11:04:26 PM by wm3798 »
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sizemore

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Re: EUREKA! Gentlemen, start your junk boxes...
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2010, 08:13:43 AM »
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Another precaution might be to put a cross over from the outbound track back to the inbound, to allow an escape route back to the inbound track should the spring switch fail, or if a powered turnout at the top ends up being more practical.

David's suggestion of a switcher pocket has me thinking evil thoughts about using a helper to heft these big heavy trains up out of staging...  The dispatcher could be the helper engineer....

Lee

Statement Numero Uno:
- Yes add the crossover, I was thinking this earlier in the lower staging I didn't like the idea of NOT having some means to switch between in-bound/out-bound underneath the flight deck. How this fairs with the sprung switches I don't know.

Statement Numero Dos:
You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads! MUAHAHAHAHAAA.... MUAHAHHAAHHAAA




MUAHAHAHAAHAHA....
Dr. Evil

wm3798

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Re: EUREKA! Gentlemen, start your junk boxes...
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2010, 09:04:18 AM »
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The crossover offers the additional benefit of making the helix into a passing siding. :D

Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

mcjaco

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Re: EUREKA! Gentlemen, start your junk boxes...
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2010, 10:41:16 AM »
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Statement Numero Dos:
You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads! MUAHAHAHAHAAA.... MUAHAHHAAHHAAA


MUAHAHAHAAHAHA....
Dr. Evil

How about giant Sea Bass? 

wm3798

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Re: EUREKA! Gentlemen, start your junk boxes...
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2010, 10:52:50 PM »
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Meanwhile, back in the junkbox...

I'm in the process of rebuilding my main yard, and with it, the engine terminal.  Today I started working on rehabbing a Heljan roundhouse that Bob sent me to look a little more American, and specifically, more like the WM roundhouse at Hagerstown.  It's not going to be a brick for brick model, but it will be the right flavor, I think...




Deconstructed for cleaning and basic repairs, and to prep for paint...


Painted with a test section built to show the new profile.  I think I'm going to tone down the pitch on the clerestory a bit.  I also have to build the exterior walls...

Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net