Is this really necessary re: 4000CD cars?

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Thanks, I'll pick one of the CNWs up and wait for the CSX cars to be run.

[pfs]

....

My point on theundecorated models is that many will say they want them but not as many will either spring to buy them or if they do, try to dump them or trade them back when their road is announced. ....

That is just not true.

Try saying that on MFCL...but I suggest you duck first.

Why does any decent (notice I said decent) undec sells out and you really cant find it, HO and N. Except for the manufactures who support modeling and make undecorated models. (Tangent, RailYard, IM, Atlas to some degree sans shiteman)...who did I miss)

[bbussey]

... Why does any decent (notice I said decent) undec sells out and you really cant find it, HO and N...

Atlas undecs sell out these days because unlike in the past, the quantity runs are based on advance reservations just as the painted cars are - because the demand simply isn't there to produce them and have them sit in the warehouse.

[asarge]

Dealers generally don't order Undecs unless they know somebody will want them. We have many undcec HO loco's and a few Undec N from people that traded them back in awhile back or didn't pick them up when they came in, but we don't order for general stock. Painted w/dimi data is a whole different story however.

[pfs]

Dealers generally don't order Undecs unless they know somebody will want them. We have many undcec HO loco's and a few Undec N from people that traded them back in awhile back or didn't pick them up when they came in, but we don't order for general stock. Painted w/dimi data is a whole different story however.

I agree most smaller dealers wont order anything they cant easily sell.

That does not support the statement that undes wont sell...however I agree that many in this hobby will say they are going to buy something (undec or otherwise) and many do not follow through.

[bbussey]

... We have many undcec HO loco's and a few Undec N from people that traded them back in awhile back or didn't pick them up when they came in, but we don't order for general stock...

... That does not support the statement that undes wont sell...however I agree that many in this hobby will say they are going to buy something (undec or otherwise) and many do not follow through.

The first statement is first-person testimony of customers actually ordering undecs and not following through with the purchase.  How does that not support the current belief that undecs don't sell in any viable quantity?

I will test the theory in 2010 with the next runs of both the G26 and XIH where reservations will be taken.  And I'll make it easy - If either undec gets more than 50 reservations, I'll release it - otherwise, it will be canceled.

[Robbman]

Four guys on the MFCL don't count as the market either...

[pfs]

... We have many undcec HO loco's and a few Undec N from people that traded them back in awhile back or didn't pick them up when they came in, but we don't order for general stock...

... That does not support the statement that undes wont sell...however I agree that many in this hobby will say they are going to buy something (undec or otherwise) and many do not follow through.

The first statement is first-person testimony of customers actually ordering undecs and not following through with the purchase.  How does that not support the current belief that undecs don't sell in any viable quantity?

I will test the theory in 2010 with the next runs of both the G26 and XIH where reservations will be taken.  And I'll make it easy - If either undec gets more than 50 reservations, I'll release it - otherwise, it will be canceled.

To qualify the 'theory' please make dealers aware of the option of undec, and please post it on your site. Anything less would not do the 'theory' justice and be a self fulfilling prophecy


Your first statement is probably just as true with RTR as undec.

[pfs]

Four guys on the MFCL don't count as the market either...

I'm going to assume you make friends there as well.

At no point did I say MFCL was 'the market'.

[Robbman]

Four guys on the MFCL don't count as the market either...

I'm going to assume you make friends there as well.

At no point did I say MFCL was 'the market'.

No... but you used the list as an example of demand...

[pfs]

Four guys on the MFCL don't count as the market either...

I'm going to assume you make friends there as well.

At no point did I say MFCL was 'the market'.

No... but you used the list as an example of demand...

So in your honest opinion MFCL is good for 4 undec sales at best?


I think in context it is relevant, there has been numerous rants of people not getting  pre-orders of undecs or getting half what they ordered etc. Some of which can be attributed to dealers but certainly not all.

The point was 'there was no demand' for undec models, my observations and spending habits are different.

[TiVoPrince]

Dealers generally don't order Undecs unless they know somebody will want them. We have many undcec HO loco's and a few Undec N from people that traded them back in awhile back or didn't pick them up when they came in, but we don't order for general stock.

Don't
forget those trade-in products that were aquired elsewhere, became suplus (for whatever reason), that somehow seem to wash up on 'your beach'...

[Robbman]

Four guys on the MFCL don't count as the market either...

I'm going to assume you make friends there as well.

At no point did I say MFCL was 'the market'.

No... but you used the list as an example of demand...

So in your honest opinion MFCL is good for 4 undec sales at best?


I think in context it is relevant, there has been numerous rants of people not getting  pre-orders of undecs or getting half what they ordered etc. Some of which can be attributed to dealers but certainly not all.

The point was 'there was no demand' for undec models, my observations and spending habits are different.

MFCL is good for 20 or so... but only if it's a HO car they want.  If people are willing to pay the same price for undecs then they're more viable...

[bbussey]

To qualify the 'theory' please make dealers aware of the option of undec, and please post it on your site. Anything less would not do the 'theory' justice and be a self fulfilling prophecy

Your first statement is probably just as true with RTR as undec.

Obviously, the cars would be announced appropriately for reservation purposes.  And no, my first statement doesn't apply with RTR stock.  If it did, there would be no manufacturers.

[Chulvis]

The problem with undecs is two fold and I have the battle scars to prove it.

Distributors have to order in case quantities from most manufacturers. Case quantities on rolling stock are twelve and usually six for locos. If Mr.Distributor has to sit on undecs because he bought them to fill one dealers order of four, he's not going to do that for very long because it hurts his bottom line in a big way. Think about that for a minute and extrapolate that into the entire MRR'ing industry from a
distributors standpoint. It is not a pretty picture from a business standpoint, especially in this RTR world we now live in. Add to that the current economic climate and it becomes even clearer.

The fact of the matter is the RTR portion of the hobby has clearly taken over and there are far fewer people who want to or have the time to paint their own models. This is the reason we do not see undecs made available from a number of manufacturers. There just is not enough demand to justify the inventory expense. InterMountain offered undec Trinity hoppers and they were a complete bust.

I have on a few occasions ordered 12 undec units of Atlas rolling stock because a customer wanted six, thinking I could sell the balance and it has never once worked out for me. It takes forever to sell them and by the time "forever" arrives you have lost any hope of profit. You need to remember that a margin of profit on an item that sells for less than $20.00 is very short...like 30 days at which point it becomes a liability. Distributors, Hobby Shops and Manufacturers cannot afford many liability's, especially today.  

Just another viewpoint.