Is it time to update N Trak Standards...???

[Mr. G]

I'm sure that share of the public would be happy about the label. Truth is, we don't have to appeal to many of the particip[ants of this list. Modelrailroading already has you hook, line, and wallet.

No, apparently you don't think you have to appeal to anyone over the age of four.

Still can't figure out how changing three pieces of track and moving them 1/4 inch closer together will make a huge difference in the appearance of my modules.

And that's why it has fallen to others to call for change.

What you don't understand is that Ntrak is not some monolithic organizations staffed by automotrons that do things only one way.  In 35+ years individual member clubs have experimented with doing things like operations.  The point learned from all that is that the public doesn't want to see train operations. They want to see trains operate.  The entertainment in operations is with the one operating.  But kids [and adults too] like to count cars.  They want to see long trains go by and could care less if you are spotting that covered hopper next to a plastics factory.  Ntrak is basic stuff.  It answers those questions of  "How do you keep on the track", "How can you see something that small" and "Can that little engine pull all those cars?" that every non N scale person had in their minds.  In doing so it opens minds to the world of N scale.  And when you hand the controller over to some little kid who just walked up to the layout with his parents and say, "how about you help me run my train?" the real magic begins.  I've seen it happen time and time again.  That will not happen in operations.   

I'm sure the light in a child's eyes when he or she sees your modules makes your day, as it should, but can't the modules also be designed to appeal to Dad as well?  The child may some day grow up to be a model railroader, but the dad has already grown up and could use some convincing, which may not come in the form of a string of miniature apartment fires and gondolas sunk into envirotex. 

[mmyers]

I'm sure that share of the public would be happy about the label. Truth is, we don't have to appeal to many of the particip[ants of this list. Modelrailroading already has you hook, line, and wallet.

No, apparently you don't think you have to appeal to anyone over the age of four.

Still can't figure out how changing three pieces of track and moving them 1/4 inch closer together will make a huge difference in the appearance of my modules.

And that's why it has fallen to others to call for change.

What you don't understand is that Ntrak is not some monolithic organizations staffed by automotrons that do things only one way.  In 35+ years individual member clubs have experimented with doing things like operations.  The point learned from all that is that the public doesn't want to see train operations. They want to see trains operate.  The entertainment in operations is with the one operating.  But kids [and adults too] like to count cars.  They want to see long trains go by and could care less if you are spotting that covered hopper next to a plastics factory.  Ntrak is basic stuff.  It answers those questions of  "How do you keep on the track", "How can you see something that small" and "Can that little engine pull all those cars?" that every non N scale person had in their minds.  In doing so it opens minds to the world of N scale.  And when you hand the controller over to some little kid who just walked up to the layout with his parents and say, "how about you help me run my train?" the real magic begins.  I've seen it happen time and time again.  That will not happen in operations.  

I'm sure the light in a child's eyes when he or she sees your modules makes your day, as it should, but can't the modules also be designed to appeal to Dad as well?  The child may some day grow up to be a model railroader, but the dad has already grown up and could use some convincing, which may not come in the form of a string of miniature apartment fires and gondolas sunk into envirotex.  

Well Mr G. (whoever that happens to be), I take plenty of pride in my modules as well as participation on NTRAK. Those NTRAK to oNetrak wyes are mine and the scenery has improved quite a bit since John shot those photos a year and a half ago. My personal favorite is the offset module with the truss bridge but I'll do better on my next module. How much change have you actually brought to the organization in the last 30 years?
Talk is cheap. I happen to like change that can make an improvement to the look and operation of NTRAK.
FYI, I'm a member of the committee that introduced the NTRAK Wiring RP back in 2005. I also wrote the electrical RP for the oNetrak division of BANTRAK. Like I asked, what have you done recently to change the standards? I was also the one that called for a poll by NTRAK this time last year to see if it was time to make that RP the standard. 42% isn't enough yet but we're working on it. If you are not a member you didn't get the poll.

Martin Myers (not afraid to use my real name)

[Mr. G]

Well Mr G. (whoever that happens to be), I take plenty of pride in my modules as well as participation on NTRAK. Those NTRAK to oNetrak wyes are mine and the scenery has improved quite a bit since John shot those photos a year and a half ago. My personal favorite is the offset module with the truss bridge but I'll do better on my next module. How much change have you actually brought to the organization in the last 30 years?
Talk is cheap. I happen to like change that can make an improvement to the look and operation of NTRAK.
FYI, I'm a member of the committee that introduced the NTRAK Wiring RP back in 2005. I also wrote the electrical RP for the oNetrak division of BANTRAK. Like I asked, what have you done recently to change the standards? I was also the one that called for a poll by NTRAK this time last year to see if it was time to make that RP the standard. 42% isn't enough yet but we're working on it. If you are not a member you didn't get the poll.

Martin Myers (not afraid to use my real name)

Mr. Myers, you're terribly mistaken in believing I care who you are.  We're not girlfriends and I frankly don't care to know you personally. 

I looked into joining a club several years ago and started building a module.  What put me off were the members.  It was a collection of grumpy old men, one of whom quizzed me on my interests and when I told him I was dabbling in Nn3, responded, "So you're an elitist," and walked away.  True, I haven't been in Ntrak since 1975.  Hell, I haven't even been alive that whole time.  I'm not a senior citizen, but I don't appreciate being treated like a kid. 

No, I haven't done anything to advance Ntrak, but then, unlike some of its members, I haven't done anything to push away new people or keep in it the stone age either.  What I see in this argument is another bunch of grumpy old men protecting their bit of turf from any incursion.  Lighting up the eyes of kids is fine, but it does nothing for the hobby if you push them away when they're adults.

[mmyers]

John,
 Now I'm pissed. Would be a good time to lock it.
Martin

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Good idea martin. This one has just gotten a little less "debatey" and a little too personal.