MTL 60' RPO looks great

[sizemore]

Over a mail hook? ...really! The Atlas forum is over there ==> (LINK)

[wm3798]

Prize winning post of the day!

Lee

[Ryan87]

Guys, let's continue to give Joe constructive criticism that can actually be useful to take back to corporate, and not argue with him.  He obviously wants input, let's not piss him off.

I think Joe knows Skibbe well enough not to be scared away by him  ;D

[JoeD]

Mike, like I said, I'm here to learn, not Piss on your cornflakes...why are you here?  Hopefully for the same reason.  I'm not here to crash anyone's party, I was told by many this was THE place for good feed back and lots of info on East Coast Modeling...and from what I've seen, it's a lot more than that.  In all of this what baffles me is your anger, not sure where that comes from, but I've never tried to mislead anyone. You act like we are forcing people to buy our product...I don't see you on our list of people we force to buy our cars?   

To your questions about tooling...The last time you repaired a mold out of hardened P20 steel, how long did it take to dig out a crushed pin...how much did it cost?  How many EDM electrodes did you have to CNC to re bore the hole and rebuild the cavity...how many days did that take...how many times did you have to weld a pocket, mill, grind, resurface and re weld, mill grind and then re-polish a part that has a tolerance of .0005 on it's mating surfaces.  When you were doing it how far behind did existing product development get?  I guess what I'm saying is that everyone has different manufacturing principles...it's easy to point to Kato or SDK and say why can't you do it that way.  Resources...money...time...more money.  We are a small operation by every measure and we have to do things that might not make sense to you, but are vital for our operations.

Frankly if you are going to challenge and snipe at me at every turn, or attempt to manufacture conflict, then your going to be wasting a lot of valuable modeling time for everyone and degrade what this forum has to offer and you lesson your message.  How about being productive and proactive.  It's easy to pass judgement, it's another thing to offer solutions.  See, it was ingrained in me working for Disney and others that you don't bring problems to the table, you bring solutions.  It's easy to cast dispersions and point fingers, it's a whole other thing to figure out what will make things work. I don't go to management here and say we got a problem,  everyone wants less shine on our plastic...I figure out a way to correct it and the show them how it can be done and what marketing advantage that can give us.  I've gotten more here then I could have hoped for with well thought out input and suggestions...even after wading through some of your posts Mike.  Even the things that are impossible at the moment to do here...might solve a problem in the future.  That's why I came here...I'm learning, I talking to folks I've never talked to before and hopefully offer better products in the future.  I don't want to fight.

Remain true to your signature..."Better Modeling through peer pressure"  ... not through intimidation, that doesn't work on animals and won't work on me...I have ex-wives that make you look like a beginner, so there's nothing about what you are saying that's going to intimidate me or drive me off  ;D

Joe




   

[Ryan87]

I don't see you on our list of people we force to buy our cars?   

Such a list exists? 

[Puddington]

Joe; You took the high road - a tip of the hat.......

[JoeD]

I don't see you on our list of people we force to buy our cars?   

Such a list exists? 

Yes and your last check bounced!  )

Joe

[up1950s]

So , are the future passenger cars going to be uniquely different than the stuff on shelves now ? I hope so .

[Chris333]

Well I do see the point of Mike's posts. And Joe you have heard me on the Z scale forums going on about things like this. I'm not trying to say Joe is a bad guy either though. He doesn't make all the decisions.

See once it is tooled and out there, that's it, we are stuck with it. You aren't going to retool the whole body side again and we know it. But at the same time that is what get us mad and why Skibbe says something about it. Everybody knows MT's tooling is great and I haven't seen a melted looking car from you guys so we know you can do what we are talking about.

Now I could go on and complain about this RPO not matching anything Erie had or that you say the rest of the cars have AC (Erie's didn't till later) but that would be wrong so I won't. But I can hope that someday I can buy something just like these coaches:
http://www.branchline-trains.com/blueprint/passengercars/coach/coach.htm
and a baggage like this:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/pax/h9.gif
 


I

[Dave V]

LOL!  I like Joe.  He gets to stay!

[JoeD]

We do re tool, more often than most folks realize.  Just finished new sides on an old favorite that I should be able to announce in a few months.  (don't ask)  We are looking at the Caboose to see if tooling can be changed...like the underframe and other parts. (pushed via this forum)  I'm working on new sides for the Z passenger cars for later this year...This version of the RPO is the first of several I have mapped out...changing how we do the Mail Hook can be part of that change.  We've met on a number of other cars that need to be updated, refined and in some cases possibly reworked...like the gons. One of my first projects was replacing our NN3 Caboose...Same with the open autorack with the addition of new uprights with plaques to better fit prototype.  It might be cut in steel, but it's not etched in stone if that makes any sense.  I've been here for 8 years and MTL is a different company in many ways from when I joined, some of it I contributed as part of the team, most of it from Management paying attention to input regardless of how it might look on the outside.  Heck, every time Bryan walks by our booth I stop breathing   ;D  Do we screw up from time to time...sure, we are human.  But we do what we can, but we can't be all things to everyone.  What might make sense to folks who have super human knowledge of a prototype or a road, may not make sense in the broader market who buys our product.  In the end we have to pay bills and you point your company in the direction of the cash flow.  

Companies like Bryan's fill an important niche and is best positioned to provide for a more exacting customer.  At the moment we would have a difficult time affording to assemble all the parts that go into his Gon, nor venture into to many protoypes that have limited road names.  He does it and everyone marches him around on their shoulders (and well should be)...we do it and flame wars erupt (RPO)!  ;D (this is not a hit, but high praise for his work and investment)  Expectations are different of course.  But we learn from his work and that's what's important.  Maybe with time we can figure out how many of those assembly fixtures Mike dislikes it takes to put a car like that together without any glue and have a good ROI.  Tooling parting line molds is a hell of a lot cheaper than doing 4 slide molds with inserts.  Again, that's why I joined this board...to learn and improve personally and professionally.  

And to your request Chris, if I can sell it to marketing and we can paint a bunch of them, it can be added to the list.

Joe

Well I do see the point of Mike's posts. And Joe you have heard me on the Z scale forums going on about things like this. I'm not trying to say Joe is a bad guy either though. He doesn't make all the decisions.

See once it is tooled and out there, that's it, we are stuck with it. You aren't going to retool the whole body side again and we know it. But at the same time that is what get us mad and why Skibbe says something about it. Everybody knows MT's tooling is great and I haven't seen a melted looking car from you guys so we know you can do what we are talking about.

Now I could go on and complain about this RPO not matching anything Erie had or that you say the rest of the cars have AC (Erie's didn't till later) but that would be wrong so I won't. But I can hope that someday I can buy something just like these coaches:
http://www.branchline-trains.com/blueprint/passengercars/coach/coach.htm
and a baggage like this:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/pax/h9.gif
 


I

[up1950s]

I could use Criss's Coach's and baggage for my W&LG fantasy road . A real basic generic look that are not fully grown up size wize . Meat and Spuds passenger cars .

[Chris333]

Aww heck I don't even need paint, just the car to work with. Anyways I would want the older Pullman green not the newer Green/Cream that would probably sell better.

About the RPO. How long is it?

[JoeD]

60' inside unless it shrinks again  ;D

Aww heck I don't even need paint, just the car to work with. Anyways I would want the older Pullman green not the newer Green/Cream that would probably sell better.

About the RPO. How long is it?

[Sokramiketes]

In all of this what baffles me is your anger, not sure where that comes from, but I've never tried to mislead anyone.

Joe   

Joe-

I figured you'd remember, but it was your venemous private messages with name calling that spured the anger, back on Trainboard. 

I have no interest in resorting to name calling with you. (I reserve that for friends here that I've hung out with in person and who will take it the right way.)  But, I do have a particular interest in critiquing things you might post, as a way to "address the other side" for forum go'ers who might not have the same insight into the production side of the hobby.

I'll keep my comments addressed toward companies and inanimate objects as best I can.  If you can stand the heat, welcome to the kitchen.