MTL Bay Window Cab. On time but Two roadnames to start.

[SkipGear]

As a second thought to this, maybe it would be best if the manufacture posted the proto-photo that they referenced with each release. MT is good at finding oddball, one-off schemes that every once in a while, prove to be right, even though they were not the norm. It might save some of the bellyaching.

[Dave V]

Not sure how that would have fixed the CR caboose issue because proto photos show that same road number as a different caboose altogether.

But I'm very pleased with the PC X78, because not only is the body and paint correct, but it was a relatively common car type that survived well into the CR era.  Plausibility for the modeler comes with modeling the mundane and ordinary, whereas the collector often desires the rare and unusual.  It is in this conflict in customer philosophy that MTL is trying to take both sides...  The results are mixed.

MTL is also getting my $$$ for those upcoming TT TOFCs!

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Oh yeah, I'm in for one of those PC cars. They're hot.

Credit is due where it's due.

You know what's even funnier? GonzoCR fan custom painted that EXACT car a few years back. Further proof of if you do it, they will make it... that was, after all, my plan for my SD40-2...

[Ed Kapuscinski]

As a second thought to this, maybe it would be best if the manufacture posted the proto-photo that they referenced with each release. MT is good at finding oddball, one-off schemes that every once in a while, prove to be right, even though they were not the norm. It might save some of the bellyaching.

Yes, I agree. But then it opens up even more criticism from people who otherwise wouldn't know any better.

Dave's right, they try to straddle both sides there, and they could probably do better, but who of us can't?

I keep coming back to trying to figure out what bugs me about things like the caboose and the white door box car.

I think it's a combination of "why the oddball?" and the made up "facts" that go on the boxes that get pawned off as truth.

[up1950s]

It would be ideal if a photo of the car in the lettering , color scheme , and within the number series was included with all cars released , or at least viewable on a manufacturers site . One would expect that they would have to have that photo in order to be confident enough to properly adorn the car . Why wouldn't they want to show the world how close they were able to attain a real close match to the prototype ?

[wcfn100]

"Jason, you can't expect full transparency."


Not only do I not expect full transparency, I don't want to know any of it.  But if they can't get it right on their own, they either shouldn't be in business, or they need to hire someone who actually has a clue.  I think it's complete BS that companies can't find a production structure which allows for more accurate models.  In fact, I think there is already one in place called kits, but we all know what most 'modelers' think of that.


I will continue to point out inaccuracies until I'm old and dead or until manufacturers start giving us a product that is worth the price tag.  $25 for a car that CR didn't even own?  It's hard to believe that people accept this sometimes.


Jason

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Because sometimes they're not close at all.

Also, just because they can view the photo, it doesn't mean they have reproduction rights to it. This could easily be an issue with photos in books.

I agree, I really wish manufacturers would do this, but in many cases, a truly informed customer isn't a great thing. This isn't a slight against manufacturers, since they have many, many choices to make when it comes to tradeoffs (we could sell thousands of these if we put the UP shield on them, but they're missing a rib here).

In a lot of cases, I think that it would be a case of liking the sausage, but not wanting to see how it's made, and sometimes showing the proto photo would get us down that road.

Take a look at the grilling Matt got over his choices on the stellar MILW cars. Do manufacturers really want to start that debate with every release? I sure wouldn't!

[John]

It would be ideal if a photo of the car in the lettering , color scheme , and within the number series was included with all cars released , or at least viewable on a manufacturers site . One would expect that they would have to have that photo in order to be confident enough to properly adorn the car . Why wouldn't they want to show the world how close they were able to attain a real close match to the prototype ?

Well, you would put the UMTRR out of bussiness then ...

[wm3798]

Because sometimes they're not close at all.

Also, just because they can view the photo, it doesn't mean they have reproduction rights to it.

Or perhaps it's a matter of the 1:1 manufacturer withholding the rights to produce the model!  Rare, indeed, but that's why Woodland Scenics auto scenes are not quite Fords or Chryslers, and why you've never seen a scale model (officially, anyway) of a UPS Package Car.  General Motors apparently won't authorize a scale model of less than 1:87, which might be why you don't see Atlas doing Chevies and Pontiacs in N scale.  What if ACF or Thrall decided to be a total dick about boxcar and gondola designs?

In the current economy, companies large and small are looking for any possible revenue stream.  If XYZ model company is turning a dime off of my freight car blue print, don't I deserve a penny or two out of that?

Lee

[Dave V]

OK, here's the deal...  My LHS offers sufficient discount that I can get the CR cabin for less than my $20 break-point (i.e., the price below which I'm willing to accept significant inaccuracies) so I ordered the cabin as well as that really sweet PC X78.

Once I get it in my hands I'll see what, if anything, I can do to make it a liitle closer.  The window patches are probably the most obvious spotting feature (besides the bay window), so I want to see what I can do with that, whether scribing or patching...  If it works I'll write it up for CRHS.

[asarge]

They could do that Lee, but unless you do something like an I hate UP car or something that really makes them look bad, they just don;t care how accurate it is.

Again, to most manufacturers, getting a car 95% accurate for a small percentage of the modelers may not be as important as making a profit without pricing it out of the market for the 90% of the market who doesn't care about every tiny detail.

For those who do care, they should keep pointing out obvious mistakes as that does put pressure on the manufacturers to do the best they can.

[Robbman]

Again, to most manufacturers, getting a car 95% accurate for a small percentage of the modelers may not be as important as making a profit without pricing it out of the market for the 90% of the market who doesn't care about every tiny detail.

Big difference between getting a model correct vs having extraneous detail added.  There's no reason that making sure during the design stage of a car that it is as correct as possible within reason... you can greatly minimize errors with good design, reviewing your test sample, reviewing your artwork, and insisting things are the way you want before production.

[Chris333]

So why not make them correct even if some wouldn't know. That way everyone could enjoy them...

Even if they are correct you can still use a chrome silver streak to pull it with a mixed train... Let's see a 30" truss rob box car, a single double stack well car, a pickle vat car, a full length dome superliner, 250T crane & boom car, 89 foot auto parts boxcar, 22' ore car, etc...

[asarge]

Again, how much are you willing to spend for every car to be "correct". The more tooling the higher the price. The less units per model, the higher the price. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out and there's no way you can tell me that isn;t the case.

[JoeD]

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cr/cr18438akg.jpg

Here is the reference shot for our Conrail Caboose.  Interesting discussion laced with usual shots across the bow ) , but informative as well.  The problem we face is in choosing a prototype to model and doing one that allows us some freedom to provide plenty of paint schemes.  But, I think it's out of line to accuse me of not doing my job just because of the choice I made.   If I did the CR proto then I would have been up against the same wall any other choice would have put me... I went with the car I did as a starting point because it allowed us to get close to a number of roads without doing a lot of expensive die work.  There are considerations in tooling that had to be allowed for as to what sequence the side slides had to be done in so as not damage existing tooling.  It wasn't to do something we could put funny faces on easier.  I pushed the design in a way that we could do additional components to get closer with future releases, even knowing we probably couldn't satisfy the road specific modelers who know far more than I do about a particular subject.  I have my interests and have lectured about the shortcommings of non-prototypical cars as well...love to see an accurate SP Flat Car in N Scale.  So I get it.

We do our best to contact historical societies and I haunt a large number of Yahoo groups.  Plenty of times, questions go un-answered or I get "you can't do that car in our scheme"... I fully appreciate the situation, make the effort, but a lot of times I have to fall back on available references.  Did we contact the Conrail Society on this car?...no...I don't know wht more we would have gotten out of the exchange since we had several very good views of this car.  The choice was offer something for the CR folks or pass them up...I voted to provide something rather than nothing.  Should the Conrail be 100% or even 90% correct...sure, but I it is correct for the prototype it was designed after. Hopefully what we did will work for the majority, and for those who don't want to waste their money on us for the choices we make or question what we call things...I am sorry.  It's impossible to be all things to everyone, but with constructive exchanges and some of the offerings of additonal information from folks who want to help, we can be better with each new car.

Joe
MTL