Helix Experience? - Revised AC&Y at Spencer

[SAH]

A few layout update photos and some Qs for helix users.

Back in business, to a degree anyway, sooner than I figured.  I've been searching for simple but effective lighting options.  Daylight CFLs on 18" centers is what is shown here.



Here's the setup flashed to show the nitty gritty.  Nothing fancy.  This is the only part of the layout I salvaged intact.  I saved a good bit of the framework from the other sections.



The 6' end section was cut to 30" and the open end narrowed to 8".



The plan is to build the rest of the sections to an 8" depth.  Multiple decks.  Lighting for the next lower deck will be incorporated into the frame of the deck above it.  Lots of details to work out but I hope to make a test section soon.

Which brings me to my questions.  Multiple decks in the small space I have means a helix.  What combos of radius and grade have you folks seen work effectively?  How many locos did it take to pull what length of train up the grade?  I've read a great deal about helix design but most of it is HO-centric.  What works in N scale?

Steve

[asarge]

An AC&Y layout! Very cool!

What is the height difference between the 2 decks. One thing you have to think of with the helix is height between sections and enough room between levels in the helix to get your hand in ther if you have too.

[SAH]

I thinking 12" railhead to railhead between decks.  The sections shown will not be part of the multiple deck structure.  I did some preliminary calcs and came up with 16" r for 100" per loop.  3% would give 3" rise per loop.  With a 3/4" roadbed base there would be some room for fiddling but not much.  I'd need 4 loops to get 12" rise.  My trains would not exceed the length of one loop.  Is the 3% at 16r too steep?  Any real world experinece to relate?

The AC&Y is small but not too small.  A "bantam weight" an article in an old MR called it.  Like a major Class 1 RRs busy branch line.  I like it.

[asarge]

3% is probably to steep unless you want more than 2 engines at the diameter you are looking at. The H15/16's are pretty good pullers but if I remember right the AC&Y normally only used 2 loco's per road freight so 3% might tax them a little. Also, unless your lower level is just staging you might want to give yourself a little more height railhead to railhead.

[Chris333]

I have never built a helix, but you might want to try 1/8" thick roadbed on it with stiffeners on either side of the track. Similar to this:
http://www.bcrdawsonsub.ca/Construction.htm
from here:
http://www.bcrdawsonsub.ca/

[justTRAINcRaZy]

My helix is 21" track radius, 14" climb, 5 turn. I think that's like 2.5 degrees. For me, about 10 cars per loco is all I can count on. Some are better, some not. You are welcome to try mine out with your train if that helps any.

Lighting looks good, too.

KB

[SAH]

I have never built a helix, but you might want to try 1/8" thick roadbed on it with stiffeners on either side of the track. Similar to this:
http://www.bcrdawsonsub.ca/Construction.htm
from here:
http://www.bcrdawsonsub.ca/

Wow.  That's impressive.  He's covered the entire process as I envisioned it but no doubt did far better than I could manage.  Laser cut birch?!  Egad.  My thought for helix subroadbed is much lower tech: Hanger strap (100' rolls in the plumbing supply section) as a stiffener spline, sandwiched by strips of 3/4" pink foam.  All theoretical construction mind you.  I haven't tried it yet.  Thanks for the link Chris.

[SAH]

3% is probably to steep unless you want more than 2 engines at the diameter you are looking at. The H15/16's are pretty good pullers but if I remember right the AC&Y normally only used 2 loco's per road freight so 3% might tax them a little. Also, unless your lower level is just staging you might want to give yourself a little more height railhead to railhead.

The lowest level would be Brittain Yard (since it appears you know more about the AC&Y than the average bear  ), full height and operational.  The Dawson Sub guy has the right train length and power, but the 1/8" roadbed is killer.

[SAH]

My helix is 21" track radius, 14" climb, 5 turn. I think that's like 2.5 degrees. For me, about 10 cars per loco is all I can count on. Some are better, some not. You are welcome to try mine out with your train if that helps any.

Lighting looks good, too.

Lighting should look good to you.  I copied yours.  ;D  Except the lamps are parallel to the fascia.

Good rule of thumb info on the helix.  I was gonna check yours out more closely next trip.

I wonder if unitrack could be used without a sub roadbed if supported properly.  Same concept as the laser cut birch ply.  Seems like big $$$$$ compared to hanger strap and foam though.

[asarge]

The lowest level would be Brittain Yard (since it appears you know more about the AC&Y than the average bear  ), full height and operational. 

I've been interested in the AC&Y for quite awhile now. DT&I also. Please keep up us posted on progress.

I wonder if unitrack could be used without a sub roadbed if supported properly.  Same concept as the laser cut birch ply.  Seems like big $$$$$ compared to hanger strap and foam though.

Yes you could and it would be very reliable and also the track would stay pretty clean. Drawbacks are it's more expensive and you would use a 15" radius instead of 16".

[justTRAINcRaZy]

Steve, I think I used a program called HeliCalc to do the math for me. Not having a scroll saw, I found someone who had done it with just straight pieces of wood and used threaded rod so it could be adjusted as needed.

[cec209]

You might want to take a look at the Helix Helper, a product by Scale Models Division at: scalemodelsdivision.web.officelive.com.

I haven't tried it but it looks like it might take a lot of guess work out of helix building.

[SAH]

I've been interested in the AC&Y for quite awhile now. DT&I also. Please keep up us posted on progress.

Yes you could and it would be very reliable and also the track would stay pretty clean. Drawbacks are it's more expensive and you would use a 15" radius instead of 16".

The DT&I is cool too.  So you're up on Columbus Grove. O no doubt.  The Grove track alignment prior to DTI using the B&O R.O.W through town would make for a great layout.  DTI and ACY facilities were a stones through away from one another.

The unitrack approach is intriguing.  It seems like it would work out just like the Dawson Sub birch ply solution.  I may get a couple of loops to try it out.