Why Oh Why Oh Why "O"?

[wcfn100]

Leo cuts right to the chase.  If you compare dollar for dollar in terms of modeling volume, you might be able to argue that N scale is just as expensive, and maybe more!

Lee

I actually see Leo's post as being more symptomatic of the problem.  Justification.  The guys I know who buy 3 rail O scale, buy only out of the love of trains.  There need be no rhyme or reason, they just love trains and don't worry about the cost as long as they can afford it.

For N scalers to spend an outlay of cash, many need to justify it.  You can read it right in Leo's post; "I need this because of whatever".  I can't remember how many times I've read about people buying stuff because they rode that train once or their grandfather worked for the RR, or it's their wifes favorite color or, as Leo pointed out, because there are five of whatever in a particular photo.  The fact that you can fit more N scale into a particular space just justifies to some owning 3000 frieght cars and 200 locomotives even though it's rediculous to have that much stuff (IMO).


Keeping in mind that this justification is often a result of mariage/relationships.  How many of us have thought about going into O scale because of the massiveness of the models?  Now just think if you were single again and had no one to answer to.  Would you think as much about spending $2000 on a loco you just want?  Or another way to look at it, would that decision be any harder than the one you have now buying a $110 locomotive?

And FWIW, N scalers being cheap falls right in line with this.  The cheaper it is, the less there is to justify.  Which, of coarse is stupid because, as it's been pointed out, N scalers end up buying more so the cost ends up the same in the long run but is easier to live with for some reason.


Jason

[bicknell]

Actually, I think it is both.

If I give you a 4x8 sheet of plywood and tell you to build an O Scale layout and an N scale layout on it there is a great difference in what you can do.  An O scale locomotive pulling 4-5 cars takes up one whole side, and is likely as large as you're going to run.  Add a passing siding and there is very little room left for structures.  10 buildings or so and your plywood is full.

On a 4x8 sheet of plywood in N scale you can have a set of three locomotives pulling 30 cars, enough track for a small yard on one side, a divider down the middle with two difference scenes on each side each with 20-30 structures.

So if you have $5000 to build a model railroad the cost per item in N scale must be lower than the cost per item in O scale to fill the same space.

Then, because it is cheaper and because you can fit something real in the space N scale folks do.  I run a 100 car train at NTrak shows, which for the coal trains and era I model is prototypical.  The  modelers love it, the public loves it.  Ever seen a 100 car O scale train?  Me either.

It's a nice circle, each part feeding off the other part.

[wcfn100]

"On a 4x8 sheet of plywood in N scale you can have a set of three locomotives pulling 30 cars, enough track for a small yard on one side, a divider down the middle with two difference scenes on each side each with 20-30 structures."

Except not all of us cram as much as possible into a given space.


Try a single RS-2 pulling 10-14 cars with two maybe three industries that are actually large enough to support rail traffic on either side and whatever filler/support structures are needed to create a realistic scene.



Jason

[CoalPorter]

"On a 4x8 sheet of plywood in N scale you can have a set of three locomotives pulling 30 cars, enough track for a small yard on one side, a divider down the middle with two difference scenes on each side each with 20-30 structures."

I calc a minimum train length of about 11 ft. Which , I guess is "doable" on a 4x8 layout if your running right upto the edge. But I was having trouble running trains like this in a 10'x10' room.


I can't find it now, but I had an O scale photo from West Springfield with an O scaler running a train headed by 4 Overland Models diesel locomotives, which is about $20,000 worth of power. ! :

[bicknell]

Except not all of us cram as much as possible into a given space.


Try a single RS-2 pulling 10-14 cars with two maybe three industries that are actually large enough to support rail traffic on either side and whatever filler/support structures are needed to create a realistic scene.

Ok, so in O scale on a 4'x8' sheet of plywood you would have a single track, a 44 tonner, and a single boxcar, and it would go back and forth.

 ;D

[jmlaboda]

Its aright if you want to pay $500 - $750 to buy one of those articulates (roughly divided up scale wise)... that doesn't mean that most N-scalers are willing to pay that much.

[wcfn100]

Ok, so in O scale on a 4'x8' sheet of plywood you would have a single track, a 44 tonner, and a single boxcar, and it would go back and forth.

 ;D

Well now you're just being silly.  With a 5K budget I'd pick up a couple interurban cars and a steeple cab.  Hang some wire with city street trackage on one side and country livin on the other.

Fun on a bun.


Jason

[3rdrail]

Its aright if you want to pay $500 - $750 to buy one of those articulates (roughly divided up scale wise)... that doesn't mean that most N-scalers are willing to pay that much.

I don't particularly want an articulated, and especially not two such rare birds - one only 10 in number and used on one railroad in one city, and the second a dismal flop that didn't last a decade! I was pointing out that "O" gets such rare birds from Lionel, and N scale still doesn't yet have a Ten-Wheeler.

[up1950s]

N scale needs more forethought and finer tolerances to get a steamer to run smooth and pull decently . O scale is not as hard . Just make the castings , gears , and stuff which will easily fit into the boiler . Add weight if needed ..... plenty of room , wire up with almost any thing , no need for care in flexibility . They are apples and oranges as to design tolerances , available parts , assembly difficulty , and expected performance results .

Edit , I forgot to mention probably durability , which if not there will hurt a manufacturers reputation and future . O scale is easy compared to N .

[wm3798]

To build on Leo's original point, though, I think there's also the issue of the layout's theme and the modeler's desire to adhere to one.  Most of the Lionel guys I know are perfectly content to run their Pennsy Atlantic right next to their UP Big Boy.  They don't loose sleep mixing eras or regions in the same train.  They will draw the line at Passenger vs. Freight, but that's about it!

Now, that's not to say that there aren't O scalers (note that these are not necessarily Lionel guys) who build themed layouts, there certainly are.  John Armstrong and Lorrell Joiner leap to mind (past tense on both, regrettably) Nor does it mean that N scalers as a group all adhere to a prototype theme with fundamentalist zeal.

For N scalers who approach the hobby with that more laissez faire approach, N trak provides a perfect outlet.  Typically the spectators of these layouts aren't going to nit pick that a Big Boy is pulling a double stack train, or that an old time 4-4-0 is running on the same track as an Acella.  Nor are the owners of these trains losing any sleep about the show that they're putting on.

But, on the home layout, I think N scalers are more likely to fix themselves with a theme and local, and that creates the shopping list they use when hunting down locomotives and rolling stock.  This can either help reign in spending by limiting the scope to particular items, or it may cause a spike in spending because you find something that you just gotta have to complete some part of your theme.  As an example, I never really considered modeling steam, but the Bachmann Consolidation came out in WM colors, and closely resembles the engine on the WMSR, so I could justify it.  That project begat the K-2, which was a little more challenging, but could still fit into my overall theme, as a K-2 survives on display in Hagerstown.  It's only a short leap to imagine that it gets restored for excursion service, so therefore has a semi-legitimate place on my 1970's era WM-themed layout.

The guy spending $2500 on an O scale articulated probably isn't using it to run on his inch for inch O scale model of Cajon Pass, He's either got it on the mantle, or pulls it out to run the dash on the big circle in the basement, or perhaps at a train show where it can stretch its legs a bit.  But theme probably doesn't enter into it beyond the fact that it's a favorite road or paint scheme.

Lee

[bicknell]

For N scalers who approach the hobby with that more laissez faire approach, N trak provides a perfect outlet.  Typically the spectators of these layouts aren't going to nit pick that a Big Boy is pulling a double stack train, or that an old time 4-4-0 is running on the same track as an Acella.  Nor are the owners of these trains losing any sleep about the show that they're putting on.

NTrak is more odd than you describe.   

While it's true NTrak guys don't loose sleep over the train era not matching the scenery era, when it comes to the train itself what I see is two extremes.  One camp is as you describe, throw some cars behind an engine, run it around.  No real thought to era or train make up.  However, the other camp is proto-stickers.  I remember one guy at Louisville running a passenger train I thought looked good, so I said so.  I then got the 10 minute story about how he spent 10 years tracking down all the cars to model a specific train on a specific day because he got his first train ride on that train on his birthday.  He'd gotten the historical society to find some old documentation, used some pictures he had, scratch built one car, hand painted 3-4.  I mean, wow.

So there's sort of a two extremes thing going on.

[absnut]

I think we can all fall into that "laissez-faire" group if we're not careful!! ;D  While I try to keep my layout focus on the transitional era (or what my definitition of that era is), I've long watched Amtrak's Downeaster travel through southern Maine and often thought I'd like to model it, even though it didn't "fit".  After finally taking it to Boston and back, I finally gave in and gathered up a P42, some Amtubes, and an F40ph which I bashd into a cabbage and I had my train.  It doesn't permanently reside on the layout but, it does make an occasional appearance for my own rail-fanning pleasure.

Dick