State of N-Scale Magazines?

[Walkercolt]

Both magazines are ALWAYS looking for submissions. (I know both Pam and Kirk, but I consider Kirk a 'buddy"). One page articles are often needed as badly as twevle page layout shoots. "How-to" articles are some of the best, even if they are "basic". There are always new people getting into N-scale, and many things work better in N-scale than larger scales. Foam secnery jumps to mind. Laying flex-track with glue rather than track nails is another. Trust me, both would appreachate a lot more submissions than they get, and both will help you with what they need in photos and help with your copy. If you are an N-TRAKer, articles on modules are aways sought after, especially tips on construction and the ten-thousand ways to attach legs. "Layouts that grow" and sectional layouts that can be moved are very sought after, too.

[Denver Road Doug]

the last thing I wanted to do was flame someone on what is (effectively) my second thread "back".

I guess in my mind a couple of things stand out from your second post....
1. It seems that one magazine wouldn't be a big enough sample by which to form such an opinion.
2. I recall from the past that you professed an inability to do certain things modeling wise (big fingers) yet you're bashing Unitrack?
3. You confess to being "sensative" yet you are tiptoe-ing through a land mine of published authors, the publishers themselves, and a highly opinionated forum population. (and probably one of the more notorious "quality over quantity" groups at that)  Really?
Now, I don't think you intended to just throw a grenade into the room and take off running.  Probably intended to be more along the lines of "N-Scale Magazines....Discuss", but in this case the room is full of Cowboy fans and you're wearing a Redskins jersey.   

Regarding Unitrack, I personally don't think you'll find that the attitude has changed much on this forum.  Overall, I'd say Unitrack use has grown and probably does warrant space in one or both of the n-scale rags.  I'm not sure if you are referring to the "huge, mondo Unitrack Heaven" article or not, but I have to think at some level the sheer size of that thing is at least somewhat impressive to model railroaders regardless of talent/snootiness/finger size.  Anyway, I would think you would embrace Unitrack given your comments--now, and from a few years back.  Having similarly large digits myself, I can understand your frustration with n-scale.  But, I just "fight through it"...it's not impossible to model n-scale with 4 pairs of thumbs.  Might be tougher, but you just gotta keep giving it a go if you enjoy the hobby overall.  I think Unitrack helps exactly the situation you are in...frustration.  Frustration--in this case--with flextrack and/or the inability to quickly get a trains up and running.  After being in the hobby MANY years, I only recently got good enough laying flextrack that I would/could choose it over Unitrack. (thankfully before I truly got to use Unitrack extensively, or I'm not sure what would've happened!)  My interest in Unitrack is for use as hidden trackage such as staging, personally.  It's not that I don't think the "Unitrack superdetailers" can't make the track look OK, but to me the same effort applied to flextrack would always yield a better product assuming you have the skills/patience/time to put the flex down in the first place.

One thing I really think you should keep in mind is....everyone has certain skills they are good at or things they are interested in.  But you can't look at it in a vacuum.  We'd probably love to have Tom Mann's weathering skills, but if Tom Mann had to "superweather" the Unitrack Heaven layout it would probably take him, literally, decades.  Locos numbering probably in the 1000's and cars maybe in the 10,000's.  Tom would probably be cross-eyed and half crazy before getting a third of those done.  (that is not a challenge, btw!!!)  Point is, few are REALLY good at EVERYTHING.  Some are following a strict prototype and others--like you--are good at coming up with freelanced/protolanced models.  But these skills require research and/or "creative time", and possibly at the expense of learning some other part of the hobby like wiring or making trees.

Back to the topic at hand, I personally think the magazines have improved considerably across the board over the past 2-3 years.  I will admit I don't see every issue of the two N-scale rags, but what I have seen, and even Model Railroader, has been impressive to me.  I think I'm a minority opinion on that, but I guess my point is try a few more issues before extending the claws fully.

I do think a good topic would be "What Do You Think Is Worthy of Publication" or "Realistically, What Would Your Ideal/Favorite Issue of <InsertModelRailraodingMagazineHere> Contain?"  There has always been such venom directed toward the magazines, and I'm curious just exactly what WOULD make people happy.  I know there are things I always like to see, but again from feedback I've read and heard from other model railroaders I suspect I'm in the minority.  But, I'm pretty happy with what they're producing regardless.

[Walkercolt]

Doug, I know I'm the "great un-washed", but I'd rather see an operating Unitrack layout than bare plywood with 5 feet of flextrack on cork. If a guy is having fun running trains, isn't that what it's all about? If you want a Big-Boy running in New York, it's fine with me. And if a magazine does an article on that kind of thing, well, I can skip it, or not buy the mag. I still do silver photography and listen to LP's. Almost all the photo mags now tell how the guy spent 500 hours in front of his 'puter monitor doing what I can do with one sheet of 4X5 film, and do it better with an hour or two in the darkroom. So I don't do the photo magazines anymore, but if someone wants to do it that way, it's OK with me. There's no "wrong" way to have fun with our toys.

[Hyperion]

That UniTrack article had at one great thing about it (beyond its impressive scale)...

When the wife complains about what I spend I can always pull it out and say "At least I'm not as bad as that guy".

Holy crap I'd like to be that guys LHS.  He's undoubtedly bought more stuff than the vast majority of shops do themselves.

[Denver Road Doug]

Walkercolt, I agree with everything you say there.  I'm a fan of Unitrack and said it belongs in the magazines.  Do you think what I said disagrees with your comments?

[John]

I think UNITRAK is just too limiting for my tastes ..

[Bob Bufkin]

I'm using Unitrack for my mainline but have the conversion pieces to use other track in sidings, branch lines, etc.  My old layout was Atlas flex with Peco switches that I ripped out because of age and a minor flooded basement.  Wanted to get something running fast and besides, my eyes and hand-eye coordination ain't what it used to be 30 years ago. 

I thoroughly enjoy the work that individuals show here on Railwire.  It sometimes makes be feel like a rank amature although I've been modeling on and off for 40 years.  No matter if your running a oval under the Xmas tree of are a rivet country with a full basement, having fun is what matters.

[Virginia Atlantic]

the last thing I wanted to do was flame someone on what is (effectively) my second thread "back".

I guess in my mind a couple of things stand out from your second post....
1. It seems that one magazine wouldn't be a big enough sample by which to form such an opinion.

Agreed.  However, it seemed such a change from my memories, I found it worthy of comment.

2. I recall from the past that you professed an inability to do certain things modeling wise (big fingers) yet you're bashing Unitrack?

Yes, I had (and have) a wide variety of inabillities, and yes, I am "bashing" Unitrack in a Magazine (not unitrack itself).
 

3. You confess to being "sensative" yet you are tiptoe-ing through a land mine of published authors, the publishers themselves, and a highly opinionated forum population. (and probably one of the more notorious "quality over quantity" groups at that)  Really?

I am well aware the potential for irony here, yes.  And yes, I was certainly aware that the Railwire population is exceedingly well represented in publishing circles, and was (matter of fact) very hesitant to post for fear the Author himself (A name I did not recognize, but that means little this far past my "active" time here) would find my view/question offensive.

With that said, I do not believe my inquiry is an inappropriate one. 

Now, I don't think you intended to just throw a grenade into the room and take off running.  Probably intended to be more along the lines of "N-Scale Magazines....Discuss", but in this case the room is full of Cowboy fans and you're wearing a Redskins jersey.   

Well, certainly not running.  I may not be here in the "al day long" way I was in the past, but I'll answer to any criticism anyone wishes to levy for my opinions or my way or writing them.

And please, as a Jets fan marooned here in DC Land, please don;t ever say I'm "Wearing a Redskins Jersey".  I;d rather have my skin flayed off by Pizza-Cutting Mixcrotrains wheelsets.

Regarding Unitrack, I personally don't think you'll find that the attitude has changed much on this forum.  Overall, I'd say Unitrack use has grown and probably does warrant space in one or both of the n-scale rags. 

One thing I really think you should keep in mind is....everyone has certain skills they are good at or things they are interested in.

 

Well.......I would imagine th egeneral view of Unitrack would nto change, as Unitrack hasn't really changed.  It is what it is.

But I won;t lie, I find Unitrack-based layouts in Magazines something of an oddity.  I (and this is a persona view) always viewed published stuff as "the best".  Something to strive for, be intimidated by, in awe of, pick your terms.  Unitrack does not, and can not, qualify in my personal view.  It looks like what it is, fake plastic.  It's not an issue of criticism of the modeler....no matter what I think of his work, his work is 1000000% better than MINE, because I am an overly sensative gurning quitter (In all honesty).  So I am sure the modeler is proud, and rightfully so, he created something most arm-chair big mouths like me never could.

That doesn't mean it belongs in a Magazine.   And it struck me as especially odd, given my memory of N-Scale as the more hardcore, here is how you scratchbuild and hand-do everything kind of publication.  Custome built loco franes, electricla wiring for a thousand signal heads....and Unitrack/unweather layouts?  It seemed very out of place to me.  Hence my core question, what is the state of the two N-Scale pubs.  Have they changed much?  Seems to me N-Scale, at least, has.

....before extending the claws fully.

I assure you, my claws remain fully retracted.  In my absense from the Railwire these past five years, one of my hobbies was hardcore political debate on a Politics Forum.  THAT is claws.  This is not, or at least was certainly not intended to be.

There has always been such venom directed toward the magazines, and I'm curious just exactly what WOULD make people happy.  I know there are things I always like to see....

In a word?  Inspiration.

To me, it was always what the Mags were for.  Inspire me.  Oddly (and yes, I knwo it's very odd) that inspiration changed when the Magazine guys started writing HERE, and postingh here.  It changed (for me) from inspiration (which I liked from the Mags) to intimidation (Not as nice).

But to me, NSR got it "right" almost universally, and if they tossed in a few articles on scratchbuilding and wiring, it would have been perfect (and maybe they do now, as I said, 5 year absense give or take). 

In any event, I see my way with words remains fumbling and bumbling.  But if I am still being offensive, or havn;t been clear, please let me know, and I'll try again. 



[/quote]

[Denver Road Doug]

Warfish, thanks for the reply.  I have a better understanding of your view now.  And sorry about the redskin thing. 

Regarding inspiration, I found this point really interesting.  I remember back in the olden days when I would read MR as a youngster that I was intimidated, not inspired.  They were always building models that I could not purchase locally, that were kits that--if I could find them locally--I was assured were not meant for beginners like me by the various shops in the area.  (and no they had not seen my work, which would have likely proved them correct!)  They were using glue and paint that I could not get in my hometown, and tools that even my dad....who had both an extensive woodshop and extensive automotive tools, as well as a wholesale steel company....did not possess.  Now, knowing what I know now I could have improvised, but "non knowing what I didn't know" shot that right out of the water.  Outside of that, the sheer beauty and impressiveness of the art that I saw in the pages of MR served more to beat me down than it did to inspire.

So, while I mostly agree that the "cream of the crop" should be the focus of magazines, I don't think that including "mere mortals" is a bad idea either.  That way Joe ModelRailroader can see that not everything falls out of a box and looks like an MR cover photo.  I agree we want to be inspired by the best modeling, but I guess I think the same thing you experienced on this forum also happens from the printed magazines.  Plus I think Unitrack in particular would benefit younger modelers and encourage them to grow/remain in the hobby.  We need that to happen for sure.

[pbrooks]

Doug Said-

"Regarding inspiration, I found this point really interesting.  I remember back in the olden days when I would read MR as a youngster that I was intimidated, not inspired.  They were always building models that I could not purchase locally, that were kits that--if I could find them locally--I was assured were not meant for beginners like me by the various shops in the area."

-----------------------------

Talking about not having supplies, I have to tell one on myself...

My first Model Railroader was in 1972, and I was 12 years old. I read about Logan Holtgrew (sp?) scratchbuilding with "styrene". Having never seen styrene 'cause I lived in the sticks, I thought styrofoam must be the same thing. I cut up a styrofoam egg carton lid and tried to build a house out of it. It almost worked until the solvent glue MR said to use (I used model airplane glue) melted it into a pile of goo.

My layout sported a two-foot high trestle made of stacked cut-up kitchen matches, and a waterfall made of blue Testors paint streaked onto Saran Wrap. A lot of the buildings were made from construction paper and white glue, with red used for bricks, and bright green for the shingles. To tell you how bad it was, my oldest brother asked me why I didn't use a straightedge to cut out windows. I was free-handing them, so they were only rectangles in the broadest sense. I asked him, "What's a straight edge?"

When I ran trains, though, in my mind's eye that little world was beautiful.

I've built six layouts since then, and each has improved. What helped me the most was joining a club and seeing how other modelers did things. Having forums is the next best thing, and the necessary model photos to share your work lets you see your models like everybody else does, with fresh eyes.

Alex is being too hard on himself I think. I mean, I remember the VARR, and always thought it looked very realistic and plausible. I can see getting out of the hobby if you're not enjoying it, but I don't understand the sentiment that you felt your work was sub-par. I always liked it.

I guess the bottom line is that some folks are inspired by good modeling, and some are intimidated, whether it is on a forum or in a magazine. Having met incredible modelers like Paul Downs, the first thing you realize is that he doesn't have an extra arm growing out of his chest. His modeling is a direct result of working his butt off for years, and trying to improve with each new project. I think that's one reason people use the phrase, "he's so talented."

By saying someone has talent, it implies that you don't have any, and therefore lets you off the hook because you'll never get to where he is as a modeler. The truth is, talent has VERY little to do with model railroading. It has WAY more to do with learning, hard work, stubbornness, practice, patience, and improving one's skills with each project.

As Thelma and Louise said, "You get what you settle for".

Sorry for the rambling, but these thoughts hit my sleepy mind after reading through the thread tonight...

Good discussion!

-Phil Brooks

[lashedup]

I think Phil makes a good point. I can remember being in awe of some of the incredibly well done layouts featured in magazines, and maybe a little frustrated when I couldn't come close to duplicating those results when I sat down and tried. But why? Not because I lack the ability but more because the magazines mostly just featured photos of a complete layout, not hyper-detailed how-to articles. When the magazines did how-to articles, they were still often limited in space, photos, text and most importantly detail to cover the steps adequately enough to make it very clear to even the basic modeler how to accomplish something. On the print publishing side, this has improved over the last ten years with Model Railroader's great how-to books and a newer focus on trying to do more complete how-to articles with more photos and better details. Phil Brooks N-scale Railroading article on doing rocks on his layout is a good example.

Where this has all changed is on the Internet. Today you have discussion forums and blogs *FULL* of great ideas, how-to articles, sharing of war-stories on building things, creating things, painting things, weathering things and more. Not only is someone sharing their ideas on how to do something, there are tons of photos to go with it, detailed instructions and most importantly feedback and the ability to ask questions. I think this has broken down some of the shock and awe in some of the fine modeling that is done and shows people that you *can* do a LOT of the things that you may have thought were too difficult or impossible. You still have to have patience, a willingness to fail and try again and not be afraid to show your mistakes or things you aren't happy about and ask for feedback. Chances are you'll get it. And you may get it from some of the best modelers out there. Outside of clubs, there was no way to tap into this in the past.

Sure, you'll discover there are things that you just don't have the patience for or can't get the knack of (or don't want to!) and that's fine too. Most things in this hobby can be done fairly easily once you are shown the specific steps to make it happen. That doesn't mean you'll weather your first box car like Tom Mann or make your first mountain scapes like Phil Brooks or build your first urban/city scenery like Bill Denton... but you *can* ask every one of those guys and many more here in this forum for help or suggestions.

Anyway, I'm rambling...

-jamie

[Robbman]

I think UNITRAK is just too limiting for my tastes ..

It's great for staging yards though... especially if you get it cheap.

[sizemore]

I dunno guys I kinda liked the ultra snobbish magazine of the Hundmann days. I enjoyed seeing advanced techniques used, that's the only way to learn (think Model Railroad Craftsman). When I started looking at it in 1993 the covers amazed me captivated me to look inside see how someone pushed the envelope. Now when I look at it, it feels like MR, somewhat juvenile, the envelope is still in the box on the shelf at Office Depot.

As for NSR it's like the basic magazine (like MR is to model railroading in general) and they showcase layouts and new products which makes it great. I know I stated that MR is juvenile but it is 100% N scale which makes it enticing.

Both magazines used to complement each other pretty well. Now I am getting two magazines, same overall content and I still want more (advanced, articles).

[Mr. G]

I'll wade into this topic.  I currently subscribe to N-Scale which has hit or miss parts, but usually leaves me with at least one article I want to clip, almost always a technical one.  I love NSR and even though some issues are too much frosting and very little cake, I will pick it up when I'm at Chuck's shop.  That said, I won't subscribe.  Since it's largely eye candy, I don't feel like I'm missing out on a learning experience by not getting it and I can't fathom why they have a 19th century subscription method.  It strikes me as technophobic, which is odd given where our hobby is at.

Outside of those, I got NGSLG for years and still love it, even if it seems to drift more to mega scales each year.  I still haven't gotten my blank check and 4,500 sqft.

Unitrack.  Okay, so I've got a test track in Unitrack.  It makes for a good control setting in which to troubleshoot.  I'm not against it in magazines in theory, as prefab track is getting nicer, but unweathered stuff dropped on flat benchwork strikes me as a bit half-assed in a national publication.  It's like a custom car magazine doing a pictorial about a guy's six month old stock Corvette.

It seems strange to say, but I think in terms of magazines, N scale fairs well in comparison to HO by a greater margin that it does in terms of actual models.  MR seems so HO-centric that it's the de facto publication for that scale, but even there the layouts frequently strike me as lackluster.

[Denver Road Doug]

It's like a custom car magazine doing a pictorial about a guy's six month old stock Corvette.

I look at it more like a guy that bought 31 stock Corvettes for each day of the month and built a garage to put them all in.  I think that would be pretty interesting to most folks, even if it's not their cup of tea.