Aerotrain ,"Cute" and "Cool"!

[Robbman]

Yep...

[Ryan87]

Excellent... Now the big question... how hard is it to get parts from Concor?

[Nato]

  Ok! First to answer a question. The Flexicoil truck used on the GM LTW 1 locomotive was covered with a skirt this is reproduced on the model,what the real truck behind the skirt would look like is not modeled. One other correction. Car interriors are dark gray plastic. There is nothing in tthe instructions for the individual cars and locomotive explaining how to hook the train together. However in looking at the exploded view of the coach one can see that the pins for plugging wireing in are on the light board set inside aways from one end. Follow the instructions for removing the car body, I used a flat wood toothpick,once I had one end started I ran the toothpick down thru the space(slot) created between body edge and the floor (chassis) and this loosened up all the tabs,so bodies could be carefully lifted off. Do not reinstall the body and then try to connect the diaphrams after plugging wiring in. Best method is with the body removed touch its diaphram to the end of the loco or next car, the magnets will draw the units together with a slight clink. then the body can be slid into position over the floor and snapped back on,the wies make a "V" bend to accomodate fitting under the diaphram. Assemble the train near some trackage as the entire train assembled is hard to carry around to put on the rails (especially 10 car version) . This way you can just lift the train over onto the track that it is next to. You cannot easly slide the train on the rails to feel if all parts are on the rails, close inspection is only way to tell. The connections between cars are stiff, and occaisionaly one wheel set looks off, but the train will still run if this occurrs. Operation is very smooth, there is just a slight amount of noise from the locomotive. The train tracks good through fairly sharp curves, when backing up I would go very slow and you will have to test yard tracks to see about tracking. The twin white lights on the nose light up and as per prototype when backing the center red light comes on. The rear car has a white & red light red is on in forward and white in backup movements. That cool flourosent looking interrior  lighting looks great,especially in a darkened room, or at night the side number boards on the loco also glow (light up). The train looks very wimpy with just four cars, atleast one 3 car addon set or better yet the full 10 cars is required . All in all a wonderful model. Nate Goodman (Nato).

[NYC1956]

Nate, thanks for the additional information - very helpful.

Walthers now shows all versions in stock. Your favorite dealer should have them soon.

Con-Cor parts. Best to telephone and ask for what you need, then be patient.

--Mike

[NYC1956]

Not your father's Oldsmobile - well, almost.
I never knew Harley Earl at GM was behind the design.

You might find some interesting reading on the following web sites:

http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/magazine/31/31.html

http://www.carofthecentury.com/the_aerotrain.htm

--Mike

[NYC1956]

Nate, thanks for the reviews. Now if one were to add sound, what is available? The horn would be a Leslie S-3L. The locomotive is not a diesel-electric - it is a 1200 HP engine driving directly through a transmission, more like an RDC it seems.

Also I wondered about those lights in the front. There are two white lights either side of the centered red light. In some photos the inner pair is on; in other photos the outer pair is on. Did they alternate, or were they used separately for different purposes? I could not find any references.

--Mike

[rtroop]

The locomotive is not a diesel-electric - it is a 1200 HP engine driving directly through a transmission, more like an RDC it seems.
--Mike

The Aerotrain LWT12 locomotive had a standard diesel-electric drive. One of the primary GM design goals was to use standard components that were used in other GM locomotives to reduce manufacturing and maintenance costs wherever possible.   It used a single Electro-Motive 567C V12 diesel rated at 1200 hp.  The front flexi-coil type power truck used two standard D37 traction motors. The locomotive’s single rear axel was an unpowered idler.  The locomotive was geared for a top speed of 102 mph and was equipped with dynamic brakes.

Complicating the sound issue would be the fact that the locomotive had two Detroit Diesel D71 six-cylinder diesels mounted in the nose section.  These small diesels provided AC power for train lighting, heating and air-conditioning.

Bob

[Bobsmr2]

Hi,
I received my Aerotrain and 2 3 car sets in the GM demonstrator scheme about 2 weeks ago. Sadly I will be returning the entire train to Con Cor for a refund. Upon first inspection the Aerotrain is beautifully done and equal to the Pioneer Zephyr (I have 2 of these and love them). Coupling the Aerotrain is not an easy task since each car has to have it's body removed and the stiff wires plugged in to the connectors, once this is done and the magnetic diaphrams connect the cars they tend to either kink left or right or up because the cars are extremely light . I tried adding additional weight to the cars as recommended  in the Atlas forum but this didn't help running on track. The cars tended to come off of the 11" radius track and jump switches. Upon further inspection I found that the truck on the speaker car was malformed and locked around the wheel and at least 3 to 4 other cars had very stiff truck pivoting to the point that at least 2 of them had trucks that would only settle in a slightly turned position. I tried setting the train (without tracks) on a table and making sure the train was aligned in a straight line. When I came back a few minutes later the train was no longer aligned and the cars were starting to point off in different directions. Con Cor needs to go back to the drawing board with this one and quality control needs to be tightened. After waiting so long with anticipation this is an extreme disappointment.
I had hoped to have it for The Great Train Show in Anaheim this weekend.

Bob

[Nato]

  Thanks for the addational information (kinking between cars). I was just getting around to posting about this, I call it floating wheels, sometimes the kinking does cause the wheel on one car to be floating above the rail, I found I had to go through my individual add on cars and test (a pain in the royal patooie) to pair up cars that mostly didn't kink sometimes. Problem is definately light weight as even my train of carefully matched cars occaisionaly kinks when running,and one time out of ten will occaisionally derail on one specific switch. I also had one pigtail on a car that would not stay connected,probably because I bent it trying to connect up, but re bending fixed that. The kinking was what I referred to as the cars looking derailed between cars when running in my first post. I did check the trucks on all my cars before I put the train together and finding nothing wrong and that they pivoted correctly was unable to report the truck problems encountered. I'am keeping my three sets eventhough there is an occaisional derail but will have to lable which cars connect to which when I unconnect them and store the sets away. Nate Goodman (Nato).

[up1950s]

I am going to venture a wild guess here . The Zephyr appeared to run flawlessly from what I remember about the reviews . The Aerotrain is having issues that mostly can be mitigated with the addition of weight . What does that weight do to the operational charistics of the Aerotrain ?

The Zephyr was a short train , The Aerotrain in some cases was 10 units long . Could Con-Cor kept some weight out of each car on the Aerotrain so the powered unit could pull the longer train ? Kinda found a bare minimum weight for the thing ?

What is the passenger car weight of a Zephyr car compared to the passenger car weight to a Aerotrain car ?

I'll bet the M10000 will be fine being that it's shorter .

I await my Aerotrain , and later the M10000 in 2009 . I will be glat to get them both , but I wish the Aerotrain got a better review than it has so far .

[NYC1956]

The locomotive is not a diesel-electric - it is a 1200 HP engine driving directly through a transmission, more like an RDC it seems.
--Mike

The Aerotrain LWT12 locomotive had a standard diesel-electric drive. One of the primary GM design goals was to use standard components that were used in other GM locomotives to reduce manufacturing and maintenance costs wherever possible.   It used a single Electro-Motive 567C V12 diesel rated at 1200 hp.  The front flexi-coil type power truck used two standard D37 traction motors. The locomotive’s single rear axel was an unpowered idler.  The locomotive was geared for a top speed of 102 mph and was equipped with dynamic brakes.

Complicating the sound issue would be the fact that the locomotive had two Detroit Diesel D71 six-cylinder diesels mounted in the nose section.  These small diesels provided AC power for train lighting, heating and air-conditioning.

Bob

Bob, thanks for the correction and the additional information.
Also, thanks to someone on the Yahoo NYC-RR list, I got more information about the lights on the locomotive.
The red light was used when backing. The outer pair of white lights were on while running and used as normal headlights. The inner pair of white lights can be seen in a video of the Aerotrain in service on the UP. The inner pair of lights can be seen to flash simultaneously (not alternating) as the train approaches a station.
Con-Cor correctly illuminated the outer pair of white lights on the N scale model. The inner pair is non-functional, although on the HO model they are functional and can be made to flash with a decoder.

[Boxcarbob]

Bob,

If I didn't know better, I'd think I wrote your post!  I just received my Aerotrain and have the same problem with cars going all over the place - "left, right, and up" - on our club modules.  I really think this is a design flaw involving the stiff bundles of 6 wires that have to be threaded from car to car (thanks for including detailed instructions about that in the box, Con-Cor...NOT!)  Nato, you did a nice review but you initially left out a fairly major point.  It's kinda important to have a train with cars that all stay on the track.  As you note in your later post; even after carefully finessing each car to try to remove kinks you STILL end up with occasional derailments.  I checked the Con-Cor website and they've added some information on the subject; "No offense, but this is not a problem with Aerotrain, but the quality of your trackage."  Well, no offense, but the N scale club I belong to takes layouts all over the country and I've never experienced the number of derailments on our modules that I've seen with the Aerotrain.  I can't run over more than two modules without a derailment.  Is it a coincidence that the video Con-Cor links to from Louisville shows the Aerotrain going very slowly over only a module or two before the video cuts to the next shot?  Can anyone tell me if they saw the Aerotrain run around the entire layout once?

Nato, I'm not giving you a hard time.  You really did do a good job explaining all the highlights.  I'm going to give my Aerotrain another try using your suggested fix of working through the train two cars at a time until I only get occasional derailments.  Frankly, I've already paid to have sound installed and it IS a lovely static display, so I won't return it.  Now if I could just RUN it!

Con-Cor, I love my Zephyr - it runs like a clock - but I think you need to work on a real fix for Aerotrain owners rather than chalking up the problems to bad track.  Anyone thinking of buying the 10 car version might want to look for more posts from people who already have one before buying it.  What a disappointment!

Bob

[Nato]

  Wow! This Thread is taking on a life of it's own. There has been now some discussion on several groups,Yehaw N Scale list for one about derailment problems. One suggestion add weight. Good idea as the prototypes rough ride resulted from light weight bodies supported mostly at the corners. The 7 Ounce stick on weights sold by Great Planes for model aircraft use could be installed, maybe in the roof or for a low center of gravity under the floor with seats. A more critical problem discussed that I failed to think of was wheel gauging, several posters have reported wheels out of gauge. re gauging stopped most derailments. One modeler contacted Con Cor and was told the stiff jumper wires cause the problem "Dough! Well ya!" Con sor sez keep flexing wires back and fourth to end stiffness. Not an option, a sure fire way to break them. Another factor to consider,the pivoting single axel trucks. Yes they can stick and not return to center. I'am afraid lubercating them will not help. One suggestion, probably a good idea, fix them in place with glue so they don't pivot as many European and Brit cars with fixed single axels track quite well and sharp curves on most layouts if they exist might not be a problem. Someone reported seeing the train running on the Con Cor Display (Unitrack) at Springfield and the wheels were lifting off on curves then dropping neatly back down. When pointed out to the rep he acknowledged this was happening. Rumors are out there that new runs of the train may have weight (in the roof ?) of tail car and lead car. Nate Goodman (Nato).

[DKS]

One modeler contacted Con Cor and was told the stiff jumper wires cause the problem "Dough! Well ya!" Con sor sez keep flexing wires back and fourth to end stiffness. Not an option, a sure fire way to break them.

Is the wire bundle that passes from car to car made of ribbon wire, by any chance? Ribbon wire is notoriously rigid. If you separate the ribbon into individual wires (just gently peel them apart), it will become much more flexible.

[wcfn100]

David, this wires are separate.  I only have the issue between two of my cars.  I also have issues with the diaphragms not moving freely on a couple cars.  Either way the set doesn't stay on the track.

 I think the problem is the setup for DCC.  There are seven wires between the cars.  I haven't traced them all yet but 2 for power, 2 for lights, a few for the taillight I think.  You have to have the tail car attached to get any of the interior light to work.


I'm going to ditch the CC setup and create a two piece train.  I'm assuming I can get away with just two wires between the cars to get the same operation as DC OOTB.  I'm also going to drawbar the cars and shorten the distance between the cars. This will mean making my own diaphrams.

Does anyone have a good picture of what the prototype diaphragms look like?


Jason