Franksville Wisconsin N-scale modutrak module buildout

[NorsemanJack]

Nice stuff Jack!

We were worried more about the track taking a hit while transporting it and then ending up with a section of foam that is pushed in - particularly at the edges where we need the alignment just about perfect since we don't use any rail joiners/joint sections. But if it works for you and you've had no issues then all the better.

Just a suggestion.  Take a piece of the extruded foam (blue or pink) and step on it.  Put your full weight on it.  See what happens.  That stuff is VERY tough.  I think you would do more damage stepping on a spline roadbed than the foam.  I was thinking of this last weekend while cutting some foam for scenery.  I placed my knee on a piece, with most of my weight, while cutting it.  Very little happened (and I'm on the Northern side of the recommended weight for my 6'1"  frame....   make that   Not a critique, just a possible time-saving suggestion.  Regardless, I greatly appreciate threads such as this on module building.  I am particularly impressed with your wiring techniques.  Keep them coming! 

btw: some of you may know me from my module building thread over on Trainboard.

[lashedup]

Maybe you are using a different type of foam, but the standard pink building material sold at Home Depot is what we usually use and I can definitely take my finger or hand and push in the foam or deform it - particularly around the edges. It doesn't always leave a permanent dent, but the fact that I can push it in at all also means that the metal rails that might be glued to it will also push in and the track will likely stay bent/dented. That potential problem goes away with the hard roadbed underneath.

Having moved these modules quite a few times through doors, narrow aisles, in and out of cars and such, they are constantly getting bumped and shoved and inevitably the track itself will get hit.  With that in mind (and also the fact that we have a few mechanical engineers in the group that are slightly "particular") we decided to go the Masonite route. In the end though, that sure doesn't make it the end-all-be-all solution. We were trying to come up with ways to have a lightweight module that could travel well, remain durable for a number of years and still have strong structural rigidity. So far it has worked well, but we keep making more and more little improvements and changes. The yard we're talking about building probably won't use the Masonite spline and we'll take a different approach since it is mostly all flat.

I have a photography module that is completely made of foam and other than the edges getting beat up and a slight warp to the whole thing it has held up well over the years. I've followed your threads in the past Jack. Good stuff. Plus I'm still a CB&Q fan at heart as that's what I grew up around and what my dad modeled.

Keep the questions, suggestions and comments coming. The whole reason I try and post this stuff is to learn something myself and hopefully pass along a few different ways that I happen to do things. I'm still learning like everyone else - that's part of what makes this hobby fun and ever-changing. 

As for an update tonight: I spent tonight working on structure drawings and pouring through photos. For instance I've been going over photos like this one of the Franksville Depot (credit to Don Ross for the photo):



Looking at this photo (and a number of others I have) I construct a drawing in an illustration program and try to align all the pieces I need to cut out of styrene in such a way as to minimize waste. I drew the window and door elements based on Grandt Line doors and windows.



Here is where I'm at with this structure so far:



I was playing around with the diamond roof tiles on construction paper and have since laid down American Model Builders peel and stick diamond shingles in the proper dark red/maroon color. I'll have to take some updated photos.

[DKS]

Nice stuff Jack!

We were worried more about the track taking a hit while transporting it and then ending up with a section of foam that is pushed in - particularly at the edges where we need the alignment just about perfect since we don't use any rail joiners/joint sections. But if it works for you and you've had no issues then all the better.

Just a suggestion.  Take a piece of the extruded foam (blue or pink) and step on it.  Put your full weight on it.  See what happens.  That stuff is VERY tough.  I think you would do more damage stepping on a spline roadbed than the foam.  I was thinking of this last weekend while cutting some foam for scenery.  I placed my knee on a piece, with most of my weight, while cutting it.  Very little happened (and I'm on the Northern side of the recommended weight for my 6'1"  frame....   make that   Not a critique, just a possible time-saving suggestion.

I've been using extruded foam extensively for years. Yes, you can stand on it and very little will happen. But you are spreading the pressure across a relatively broad area. Try poking it with your finger instead; it will easily deform the surface. My last layout was 100% foam. Everything was fine until I dropped a hammer on the layout from only about a foot or two above. It just happened to land right on the track, which, because there was nothing but foam under it, readily and permanantly kinked. Now imagine the punishment a portable module will take--getting smacked by boxes, tools, car doors, other modules, etc. I used to have a couple of NTrak modules, and I know what they have to endure, so I can well understand the decision to lay the track on Masonite. It's not over a concern of getting stepped on--I think the likelihood of that happening is very remote; it's the smaller, sharper objects that can do quite a bit more damage.

[lashedup]

David indirectly brings up a good point. The NTRAK standards for module building have been refined based on years of experience in dealing with the logistics of moving, transporting and repeated setups and teardowns. That's the reason the NTRAK modules have such robust construction. When we were tossing the idea around to try and build something lighter, but still retain strength we were largely doing a big experiment to see what might work, albeit with a LOT of thought and discussion as it took a good two years of trial and error to come up with the current configuration we are using. And we'll continue to refine it as we see what works and what doesn't.

I got in early this morning and painted some individual ties different colors. I take the Polly Scale Roof Brown base color and mix it with some Polly Scale Reefer White and a separate batch mixed with Polly Scale Grimy Black. I mix small amounts in an old Gatorade lid and then use a small brush to apply the paint to random individual ties. I try to keep the lighter and darker tie variation a little more subtle as it doesn't take a whole lot to give it some variation. Also, when we ballast the track, the combination of the alcohol as a wetting agent and the Arizona Mineral and Rock real stone ballast makes the whole thing blend and lighten up a bit, so the color variation become a little less obvious. If you want to help avoid getting paint on the rails I've found that keeping the brush perpendicular between the rails helps a lot:

[diezmon]

In the end it will blend a bit more like this:

Ok, I wanna know about your road lines/cracks.. 

[sirenwerks]

I've been using extruded foam extensively for years. Yes, you can stand on it and very little will happen. But you are spreading the pressure across a relatively broad area. Try poking it with your finger instead; it will easily deform the surface. My last layout was 100% foam. Everything was fine until I dropped a hammer on the layout from only about a foot or two above. It just happened to land right on the track, which, because there was nothing but foam under it, readily and permanantly kinked. Now imagine the punishment a portable module will take--getting smacked by boxes, tools, car doors, other modules, etc. I used to have a couple of NTrak modules, and I know what they have to endure, so I can well understand the decision to lay the track on Masonite. It's not over a concern of getting stepped on--I think the likelihood of that happening is very remote; it's the smaller, sharper objects that can do quite a bit more damage.

I respect the experience of others and can certainly visualize the structural limitations of foam. Not having any to poke at, I can't physically play with it though. So am wondering if such a heavy duty spline's the only consideration. How about a MDF track subsurface with foam below, and regular ribs of MDF between the foam supports, perpendicular to the subsurface and attached to it and frame surface top? Say every 6 inches? (An added bonus of grade variation just popped into my head too, with this design)

I am in the planning stage of a modular switching layout where splines like those pictured pose serious time/construction challenge, not to mention a cost consideration. I was considering an all foam approach but I want it to hold up over time. And I am a) kinda clumsy and b) have limited working space in my apartment, which compounds my clumsiness. The hammer could easily fall, or a piece of lumber, furniture, a cat... You get the drift...

[tom mann]

Are there plans for these modules somewhere?

[Sokramiketes]

Are there plans for these modules somewhere?

The build manual will be available from Chuck.

[Sokramiketes]

I've been using extruded foam extensively for years. Yes, you can stand on it and very little will happen. But you are spreading the pressure across a relatively broad area. Try poking it with your finger instead; it will easily deform the surface. My last layout was 100% foam. Everything was fine until I dropped a hammer on the layout from only about a foot or two above. It just happened to land right on the track, which, because there was nothing but foam under it, readily and permanantly kinked. Now imagine the punishment a portable module will take--getting smacked by boxes, tools, car doors, other modules, etc. I used to have a couple of NTrak modules, and I know what they have to endure, so I can well understand the decision to lay the track on Masonite. It's not over a concern of getting stepped on--I think the likelihood of that happening is very remote; it's the smaller, sharper objects that can do quite a bit more damage.

I respect the experience of others and can certainly visualize the structural limitations of foam. Not having any to poke at, I can't physically play with it though. So am wondering if such a heavy duty spline's the only consideration. How about a MDF track subsurface with foam below, and regular ribs of MDF between the foam supports, perpendicular to the subsurface and attached to it and frame surface top? Say every 6 inches? (An added bonus of grade variation just popped into my head too, with this design)

I am in the planning stage of a modular switching layout where splines like those pictured pose serious time/construction challenge, not to mention a cost consideration. I was considering an all foam approach but I want it to hold up over time. And I am a) kinda clumsy and b) have limited working space in my apartment, which compounds my clumsiness. The hammer could easily fall, or a piece of lumber, furniture, a cat... You get the drift...

Chris Schmuck has been using foam, but laminating masonite "cookie cutter" roadbed to the foam to support the track.  From the photos, it looks like just 1/8" thick masonite.  I think that would be pretty durable over time, as the masonite helps increas the footprint and keep the foam from deforming.  If you don't need the spline to be structural, as we do, then this is another option.

I would stay away from MDF just because it seems to delaminate when wet.  I'd hate to soak ballast with diluted elmers and see the subroadbed expand and bubble underneath...

The spline isn't complicated, and goes pretty quick.  I know it looks complicated at first glance, but it's really not bad. 

[Dave Schneider]

I just wanted to start out by offering my thanks to Lashedup  for this great thread. It is great to watch this project develop . You are doing a great job of documenting and describing your work (which is top notch).

I have a quick question about the depot. You have really nailed the look of this building. I am interested in the relationship of this structure to its site. In the Don Ross photo, the depot appears to be more or less level with the grade and this is the way you have built it. However in the oblique aerial shot from the page 1 post, it looks like the grade slopes down on the side away from the track. This seems to provide the proper height for a truck to load/unload freight. These subtle variations in building foundation and topography can really add some nice detail to a scene.  I'm sure it will look great however you do it...just thinking out loud.

Best wishes, Dave

[Chris333]

Mostly when I lay down Masonite over foam it is because I will be using handlaid track and I like to ACC the track down.  The last few times I put cork down over foam. I used to just carve the roadbed into the foam, but like cork now.   But I'm not transporting them all over.

[lashedup]

Ok, I wanna know about your road lines/cracks.. 

You don't want to know about my cracks...  ;D

Actually I drew the cracks by hand with a mechanical/drafting pencil. Gives it a little more opaque look that isn't as dark as a Sharpie. Use real light pressure to keep the lines super fine. You can always retrace over existing ones to make them look thicker and it gives it some of the sloppy look of tar. Only downside is that the graphite you put down can rub off.

Tom, I assume you mean a build manual of some kind? Short answer is no, not yet. This whole thing just kind of developed based on the idea of the HO Mod-U-Trak and has been brewing for over 4 years (at least). I don't think the intention in the beginning was to try and make some kind of new standard out of this, but more to have fun building something different in an n-scale modular setup. That said, we've gotten a few requests for more information on the modules and Mike and I have been talking more about doing a build manual online. There are some considerations when building these that can make some people batty - the biggest being the tolerances necessary so that things line up reasonably well without joint connectors. That said, our group involved in building these things is spread out all over northern Illinois  and Wisconsin and the first time we all got together to try and connect these modules that were built independently was at a show. On top of that we were trying to connect a loop of them. So not only were we dealing with alignment, but height and "squareness" of the modules so that they would all align properly and form a loop that would actually connect. In the end it all worked as planned and we had minimal adjustments to make.

If there is interest in us providing a build manual, I've probably taken enough extra photos and drawings that we could do it easily enough. Matt Gaudynski from Fox Valley Models is in our group and just for fun he drew up a master plan of modules that stretches from Chicago Union Station all the way to Milwaukee Wisconsin all based on the prototype in 1950-1960s. It would take our small group 20 years to build something like that, but the idea is fun and that's part of the reason we're talking about building the Western Avenue Yard next as that was just up the track from Union Station in Chicago (imagine all the name trains we could park there... ). This variation gives us everything from urban/city scenery to farmland in Wisconsin and back to the swing bridges, canals and lakefront of Milwaukee. We've even joked that if we're going to add Chicago Union Station we need to find a way to get Bill's Kingsbury branch integrated into it. Heck, maybe we can get a Railwire contingency together and model from Chicago out east...

Anyway, we can put a basic manual together pretty easily if people are interested. These modules are fairly easy to build out and when they get put together in a collective group, it makes for some fun running. If anyone makes it out to Trainfest or any other shows we are at please make sure you stop by and say hi. Heck, bring a train or two to run as well. Any questions, requests or ideas don't hesitate to ask.

[lashedup]

I have a quick question about the depot. You have really nailed the look of this building. I am interested in the relationship of this structure to its site. In the Don Ross photo, the depot appears to be more or less level with the grade and this is the way you have built it. However in the oblique aerial shot from the page 1 post, it looks like the grade slopes down on the side away from the track. This seems to provide the proper height for a truck to load/unload freight. These subtle variations in building foundation and topography can really add some nice detail to a scene.  I'm sure it will look great however you do it...just thinking out loud.

Best wishes, Dave

Thanks for the kind words Dave.

Good catch on that loading area/dock in the aerial photo. One thing I didn't mention when I posted the photo of the depot I've built is that I still need to add a foundation/piers to the building including a wood floor that you'll see through the freight door entrance. That will give me the flexibility I need to get the proper grade height all the way around the building. It should make for a cool scene.

[Dave Schneider]

Matt Gaudynski from Fox Valley Models is in our group and just for fun he drew up a master plan of modules that stretches from Chicago Union Station all the way to Milwaukee Wisconsin all based on the prototype in 1950-1960s.

Oh...so that is how the Rib Side boxcars came to be! Good job. Now you need to work on him to enter the locomotive field with a FM H10-44. Tell him I will name my first-born son after him if he does (okay, I already did...and his name is Matt, not Gaudynski). It could just be a shell to fit on the Atlas VO-1000 mechanism but how can anyone model the Milwaukee Road without a flock of these?

Best wishes, Dave

[lashedup]

We've still got him hog tied in a back room till he makes us some MILW caboose units...

(and the transfer cabooses don't count)