B&O steam guys, I need your help.

[2-8-8-0]

Hey folks. I have a question that I am really hoping one of you can answer, regarding B&Os EL-5 class locomotives, the 2-8-8-0s in the 7145-7170 series. One source I have says that they are "USRA" locomotives, which I find difficult to believe for several reasons, the largest of which is the position of the firebox over the rear drivers-all USRA mallets seem to have the firebox behind the drivers, supported by the trailing truck (The cab on the EL-5 is actually over the rearmost driver) The second reason is that the EL-1 and EL-3 class, which I have blueprints for, show a driver wheelbase of 41'2", from TC of driver 1 to TC of driver 8. The USRA mallets are a good deal longer than this I believe (another engine I have no specs for, but side by side the length difference, even in old photos, is evident). As far as 16 drivered mallets, the ELs were pretty "stubby" (even shorter than N&Ws squat Y series)
In a nutshell, is the source that says they are USRA locomotives incorrect? They look pretty similar to the earlier EL1 and EL2 class of 1916, but I suppose they could have been an influence on the USRA design? If anyone has a print of an EL-5 that has both driver wheelbase and total OAL of the loco, I would really appreciate that information. Thanks! Tim
PS the "source" is B&O Power, by Lawrence Sagle and Alvin Staufer, 1964 (very good book, I just think it's wrong here)
a second PS. Anyone know where I can get diagrams of B&O tenders?

[davefoxx]

I would definitely recommend going to the B&O Historical Society.  Back when I modeled the B&O, I was a member.  You should see their archives.  They have information and knowledgeable people on everything that is the B&O, if someone on here doesn't answer your question.

Dave Foxx

[2-8-8-0]

I was not aware that they had very thorough archives...ill have to give them a try, hopefully they can help some!

[TrainCat2]

USRA's were EL-3's

EL-5's were B&O's modifications to the USRA design that corrosponded to similar dimensions to the 2-8-8-2 Class Y-3.

Hope that helps

[Mark5]

The EL-5s look to have nothing USRA about them at all. If this is correct they are an evolution of the EL-1 which were built in 1916:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/articulated/data.shtml

Mark

[2-8-8-0]

USRA's were EL-3's

EL-5's were B&O's modifications to the USRA design that corrosponded to similar dimensions to the 2-8-8-2 Class Y-3.

Hope that helps

Where did you get this information from? The EL-3 is about the right timeframe for USRA influence, being built in 1918, I am just curious if this info came from a book or something that is yet missing from my library? Some features of the USRA engines were definately influenced by both these engines and N&Ws first Ys, but I always was under the impression that the USRA were based on these, not the other way around? What were the cylinder dimensions and driver diameter on the USRA 2-8-8-2?

Information on the EL series is sketchy and often incomplete, and as of this moment, even finding an accurate date when simplification began is difficult. They are one of the larger classes of "Big Steam" with 90 of them built as 2-8-8-0s in classes EL-1, EL-2, EL-3 and EL-5, were very successful, lasted for almost 40 years...and are all but unknown (B&O probably would have been better off with a modernized EL, with steam pressures and cylinder specs similar to N&Ws Y6, than they were with the EM-1)

As a plus, I have managed to locate a B&O diagram of series EL-5A from 1950, which should prove of some benefit. Wonder how long it will take to get shipped here...?

[Mark5]

The USRA 2-8-8-2 was more a development of the N&W Y2 than anything else ...

[Mark5]

What were the cylinder dimensions and driver diameter on the USRA 2-8-8-2?

B&O:

http://orion.math.iastate.edu/jdhsmith/term/slusbo.htm

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/articulated/data.shtml

USRA as built - see Y3:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/articulated/nwy.shtml

http://orion.math.iastate.edu/jdhsmith/term/slusnw.htm

Aside from the drivers being roughly the same size (58" for the EL, 57" USRA ), you can see that the grate was a bit larger on the USRA (96 sq ft vs 88 sq ft) and other dimensions are different as well.

Much lower tractive effort on the ELs.

Mark

[Bob Bufkin]

I belong to a B&O group on Yahoo Groups.  A lot of B&O steam guys there who may be of assistance.

[TrainCat2]

Where did you get this information from?

I had been given the info from the Yahoo B&O group back around 2002 when I was thinking of converting a few CC/RIV EL-5's into EL-3's. Appears I had been given bad info. Sorry for passing that on.

Mark, steamlocomotive.com is great. I have booked marked it.

[2-8-8-0]

I had thought that the USRA/Y3 family was a different animal than the EL, but just did not have specs for all EL types, and due to (apparently incorrect) references that said the EL-5 was a USRA-of-some-type loco, my confusion was compounded (no pun intended).

I am attempting to compile comprehensive data on the EL series of engines, as they were far, far more important to B&O than the EM-1. I will get in contact with the B&O historical society's archivist and, hopefully, gather information as complete as the 2-8-2 bible "Q" by Barr and Barringer. If anyone has ANY diagrams, data, photos, history, information on wrecks, whatever, ESPECIALLY regarding modifications or tenders used with any of these beasts, please let me know. These things rapidly went from being the motivation to sratchbuild a couple models to an obsession.