Door layout blues...

[Dave V]

For the past 6+ years I've had an N scale layout built on a hollow core door.  The current layout is take two of the 36" x 80" door genre.  I've been a longtime supporter of the door layout mainly because of my military requirement to move cross-country every few years and because I occasionally take my layout to train shows.  It's self-contained and one piece; for the big moves it has a plywood crate that fits over it.  It fits a double-track main and has reasonable curves (13.75" minimum radius and a 15" radius outer curve).

However, the door layout is not without its problems.  If you push it you can get a 16" radius curve, which is more than generous for 4-axle diesels and 40'-50' cars.  However, long passenger equipment (such as Kato's new GG1/Broadway Limited set) and large steam (like a Pennsy M1) still look somewhat goofy on those curves.  Even with mountains and tunnels, it's hard to escape the feeling of drilling circles on a race track because almost the entire line is visible in a single field of view.  It's also not particularly well suited for staging unless one gives up an entire side of the layout; even then there's only enough space for short trains.

My current layout has additional shortcomings which become more frustrating with time.  My track is flawless in operation but is the code 80 variety...  not especially realistic or attractive.  My homemade Pennsy M1 doesn't like those 15" radius curves at all; on a straightaway she can pull the bumper off a car, but in the curve she struggles to generate enough tractive effort to haul 8 or 9 boxcars and a cabin.  Not cool.  On Todd Treaster's 30" curves she hauled like a champ.

So as I examine the layout and consider improvements (switching the track to code 55, replacing the bulb signals with LED signals, adding additional staging or switching as a new module, etc.) I keep running into the question of whether I want to sink additional effort and money into it when it doesn't scratch all my itches.

On the one hand, the smart thing is to probably continue with the current layout as long as I remain on active duty (for at least another 7 years).  But on the other I'm really, really wishing I could go with a modular cockpit design.  Anyone who's ever run across the HOGRR layout site (since moved to a subscription-only Yahoo group) has seen how easy and effective it is to take a 4x8 sheet of plywood and make an 8x9 cockpit layout.  I'd do backdrops along 3 of the 4 sides, and the 4th side would be staging (including maybe a diesel shop representing Enola).

I would need to figure out a way to effectively move 4 fully scenicked layout sections instead of just the one layout in such a way that I don't use up my moving weight quota or bust the bank on plywood.  But it's awfully, awfully tempting to build a new cockcpit-style layout with broad curves, backdrops, and a much longer run.  I would be gambling that my next home would have 8x9 feet of room...  and considering that this house is my first home in 13 years with a basement, that's a huge gamble.

Just thinking aloud...

[John]

Partial DITY move     U Haul Trailer

[DKS]

I think it if were me in a similar situation, I'd be pondering ways of building ultra-lightweight benchwork. Doors are great in that you plunk down your $40 or whatever, drive it home, and you're all set to start laying track, etc. It's hard to beat it for economy and convenience.

But there are alternatives if you're willing to work at it. I've seen some very impressive layout modules made almost entirely of thin luan, carefully cut and glued into rigid frames. Add extruded styrene foam for the bulk of the scenery support, and it's featherweight and strong enough to travel. It does take some time and engineering to make something like this, as constrasted to the instant-layout door, but it does offer a lot of obvious advantages in terms of flexibility.

I've also been working quite a bit lately with 1/2-inch Gatorboard. In fact, I have several sheets of it on hand left over from a project that never got started. Now it's got me thinking about building a small N scale layout, a bit smaller than a door. I've laminated the stuff to make 1-inch bases that are rugged as anything but weigh almost nothing.

I'm just thinking out loud here, too, in hopes that maybe it might spur some thoughts for you, or perhaps get others to chime in with other ideas.

[3rdrail]

Dave, you've got a lot to think about here. First off, being USAF with 7 years at least to go, how many moves do you anticipate in those 7 years? Since you're in meteorology, to which bases are you likely to be assigned in that period? Are those bases in areas with basements? You won't find any at Tyndall AFB, I'll guarantee. You recently got your Doctorate, which should result in an upgrade in rank, would it not? Will that change the housing allowance, or provide base housing?

Personally, I recommend you look at creating a modular layout. My "permanent" layout is actually modular, it is six modules bolted together and resting on supports. The wires and track are not cut, but they could be without any problems should it have to be moved.

[JDouglasFisher]

Dave,

Don't feel bad. I'm kinda conflicted myself. I've thought about door layouts, and admired both yours and Eds in the process, I've even asked Byron Henderson for his thoughts (he was very pro-advocative to say the least...)

(Feel free to jump in Ed with some general observations of your layout...)

I've been doodling with some ideas on paper before playing with RTS, but for me, it seems once you include curves and easements, the distance between the two turnbacks is too limited in distance for anything really satisfying.

A quick search on Google doesn't yield doors longer in length than 80"  :'(

I tinkered with a HOGRR layout once, when I was in a much larger 2 bedroom apartment myself, but now I have a fiance, and live in a 1 bedroom I share with some cats too boot.

Not going to work...

Not sure what I am going to plan myself. Thinking of something along the lines of possibly ripping a 4x8 down to 40"x90" and seeing how much of an improvement that offers..

My opinion Dave, if you rip a 4x8 into 4, 1x8 pieces, you can do some really cool things with it. broad curves alone would justify the effort. Transport may be an issue initially until a special crate is built for transporting. (though you should be able to carry it like a piece of luggage it be soo narrow) Your biggest hurdle is space, both inside and around the outside, though reaching over 12" of layout is so easy, a 5 year old can do it.

(Almost like a cubicle layout, hmmm..)

The only other problem I can forsee is if you plan on having more than 1 operator, it might be cramped.

Draw up some ideas, the worst that can be done is you circular file a couple sheets of paper. Share'em with us though...

But just remember, you model the Pennsy, I see 4 track mainlines in your future... hahaha.

J.......

[wm3798]

Dave,
Doors come in widths down to 12", with the standard length being 80".  You could adapt a series of doors into whatever configuration floats your boat.  If you standardize the connections, you could reconfigure to suit whatever space you find yourself with.  Or, like so many of us, make the benchwork completely modular, and just figure that you can pull up the track and foam and start over whenever you want.

You could keep the layout you have, build another 36" panel with legs et all, then connect them with two 16" panels to create a larger oval with a pit in the middle.  In the process of replacing the track and opening up the curves on the existing board, you could redesign it so your coal mine is on a stub end branch (which used to be the main line on the back side of the layout)

Really, the possibilities are endless.  I have the most fun when I'm going through that design process.

Consider that Daryl Kruse is pulling up the Rochelle Sub, and he's not even moving!

Lee

[John]

Consider that Daryl Kruse is pulling up the Rochelle Sub, and he's not even moving!

pffft  ... he's a rookie at that

[Dave V]

Dave, you've got a lot to think about here. First off, being USAF with 7 years at least to go, how many moves do you anticipate in those 7 years? Since you're in meteorology, to which bases are you likely to be assigned in that period? Are those bases in areas with basements? You won't find any at Tyndall AFB, I'll guarantee. You recently got your Doctorate, which should result in an upgrade in rank, would it not? Will that change the housing allowance, or provide base housing?

Personally, I recommend you look at creating a modular layout. My "permanent" layout is actually modular, it is six modules bolted together and resting on supports. The wires and track are not cut, but they could be without any problems should it have to be moved.

Gregg,

Contrary to popular believe the doctorate is in no way linked to promotion or any other benefits for line officers.  I can expect at least one more reassignment in the next 7 years.   But I agree 100% that if I do anything differently, modular design is how I'll roll.

Lee, J, et al., if I come up with anything I'll post it.

Good chance I'll get all fired up about this, but start pricing the track, lumber, etc., and realize that I already have a layout.  But it's nice to dream.

[John]

Dave .. get yourself a slot up here in DC at the Air Staff .. or maybe at Ft Meade .. then retire, go to work for NOAA in DC .. and we can work on your basement empire

[wm3798]

Or better yet, he can come over to your house to help you finish yours!  Or do you think we'll be able to come over to run trains sometime in the next seven years? ;D

Lee

[Dave V]

Dave .. get yourself a slot up here in DC at the Air Staff .. or maybe at Ft Meade .. then retire, go to work for NOAA in DC .. and we can work on your basement empire

That's the plan!  I've already hinted to my assignments manager down at Randolph that I want Air Staff next.  There are some 12 or so Lt Col positions up there in weather (assuming I get picked up in the zone for O5).

[wm3798]

Then what you should do is go ahead and buy your house in PG or Anne Arundel Counties now, they're just about giving them away in this market.  You could rent it out to some schlepp getting stuck here in the BRAC realignment until you retire or get your assignment to Meade, then you're good to go.  The best part is you could measure the basement, and start working on your permanent layout now!

Lee

[Bob Bufkin]

Get assigned to Andrews Air Force Base.  I live right down the street from there.  Ed, John, Lee and a lot of others would love to have you near for operating sessions, etc.
Bob

[Dave V]

Then what you should do is go ahead and buy your house in PG or Anne Arundel Counties now, they're just about giving them away in this market.  You could rent it out to some schlepp getting stuck here in the BRAC realignment until you retire or get your assignment to Meade, then you're good to go.  The best part is you could measure the basement, and start working on your permanent layout now!

Lee

Ha!  It's tempting.  After all, most of the jobs I'd want after the Air Force are in that area (NCEP, NASA, etc.).  Of course, buying a house near DC will GUARANTEE that assignment to New Mexico...

No chance of Andrews...  I'm too senior for the weather flight job.  No worries; there's plenty of room at the Pentagon!

[Bob Bufkin]

Dave:

I spent 5 years in the puzzle palace back in the 70's.  Pandamonium on the Potomac.