Author Topic: proud to be made in the US of A... ?  (Read 6650 times)

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up1950s

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Re: proud to be made in the US of A... ?
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2008, 11:25:00 PM »
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Maybe it's a guys name , like Danny China . ::) Maybe not . :-[


Richie Dost

Chulvis

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Re: proud to be made in the US of A... ?
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2008, 11:35:48 PM »
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Footnote to my reply to Steve: Knowing MTL and their proneness to misprints/errors on their packages, I suspect that is an oversight on their part.

Van Horne

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Re: proud to be made in the US of A... ?
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2008, 12:13:57 AM »
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Footnote to my reply to Steve: Knowing MTL and their proneness to misprints/errors on their packages, I suspect that is an oversight on their part.

Proneness???!!!

David

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Re: proud to be made in the US of A... ?
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2008, 01:34:06 AM »
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Yup! Misprinted packages and inserts is one thing that makes some Micro-Trains cars so collectable...just like stamps.

Chris333

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Re: proud to be made in the US of A... ?
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2008, 03:15:33 AM »
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I think only the chassis are made in China.

up1950s

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Re: proud to be made in the US of A... ?
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2008, 07:48:11 AM »
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They have tours , and videos , that prove to me at least , that the majority of stuff is homemade . I think if 75% of a product's mass and worth is made in the USA a company can claim it's USA made . Less than that , I feel disclosure should be stated and or written in ads , on item paperwork , and in conversation .


Richie Dost

asciibaron

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Re: proud to be made in the US of A... ?
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2008, 08:45:43 AM »
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Since its workers are free to go elsewhere, I am sure they are paying them enough to keep them from leaving. Don't believe Southwestern Oregon is exactly an impoverished area.


do you have practical experience as an unskilled worker? many of my relatives are stuck in low wage jobs because they can not make the jump to IT work from factory work.  pressing the big green button in a factory is unskilled work.  i worked in a factory as a summer job in college and it reminded me why i was in college - it's mindless work best performed by less intelligent people.


regarding the "Made exclusively in the USA" - as yourself what does "exclusively" mean.

-Steve

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Re: proud to be made in the US of A... ?
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2008, 08:52:32 AM »
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"Made in the USA by Illegal Immigrant workers for $2.50 per hour"

Russ
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Re: proud to be made in the US of A... ?
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2008, 09:05:20 AM »
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There was a push by one of our erstwhile Maryland Senators to have automobiles list the countries of origin of all the major components, but then they realized that the sticker couldn't be that big, and the typeface couldn't be that small...!

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3rdrail

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Re: proud to be made in the US of A... ?
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2008, 09:10:16 AM »
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Since its workers are free to go elsewhere, I am sure they are paying them enough to keep them from leaving. Don't believe Southwestern Oregon is exactly an impoverished area.


do you have practical experience as an unskilled worker? many of my relatives are stuck in low wage jobs because they can not make the jump to IT work from factory work.  pressing the big green button in a factory is unskilled work.  i worked in a factory as a summer job in college and it reminded me why i was in college - it's mindless work best performed by less intelligent people.


regarding the "Made exclusively in the USA" - as yourself what does "exclusively" mean.

-Steve

Are you saying that someone is "entitled" to a "living wage" regardless of whether or not he or she can provide sufficient work value to an employer to earn that amount and enable the employer to continue in business? Sorry, but that's what was wrong with communism and why it ultimately fails.

Perhaps I was lucky in that I could quantify my contribution to the "bottom line" in my last job, but I never had to "back in the door to get my paycheck".

DKS

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Re: proud to be made in the US of A... ?
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2008, 09:41:39 AM »
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MT may need to look at their labeling. The Federal Trade Commission has some rules. What it boils down to is that there are no laws for such things as hobby products (or "toys") that require a country of origin to be stated...

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U.S. content must be disclosed on automobiles and textile, wool, and fur products. There’s no law that requires most other products sold in the U.S. to be marked or labeled Made in USA or have any other disclosure about their amount of U.S. content.

But if you do choose to indicate a country of origin...

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...manufacturers and marketers who choose to make claims about the amount of U.S. content in their products must comply with the FTC’s Made in USA policy.

Specifically, there are some rules that apply to statements that suggest an entire product line is made in the USA.

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Manufacturers and marketers should not indicate, either expressly or implicitly, that a whole product line is of U.S. origin ("Our products are made in USA") when only some products in the product line are made in the U.S. according to the "all or virtually all" standard.

And the "all or virtually all" standard is pretty much what it implies...

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"All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content.

It would seem that a mechanism made in China used inside an American-made shell breaks this rule:

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The product’s final assembly or processing must take place in the U.S. The Commission then considers other factors, including how much of the product’s total manufacturing costs can be assigned to U.S. parts and processing, and how far removed any foreign content is from the finished product. In some instances, only a small portion of the total manufacturing costs are attributable to foreign processing, but that processing represents a significant amount of the product’s overall processing. The same could be true for some foreign parts. In these cases, the foreign content (processing or parts) is more than negligible, and, as a result, unqualified claims are inappropriate.

A pretty good applicable example:

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A company manufactures food processors in its U.S. plant, making most of the parts, including the housing and blade, from U.S. materials. The motor, which constitutes 50 percent of the food processor’s total manufacturing costs, is bought from a U.S. supplier. The food processor manufacturer knows that the motor is assembled in a U.S. factory. Even though most of the parts of the food processor are of U.S. origin, the final assembly is in the U.S., and the motor is assembled in the U.S., the food processor is not considered "all or virtually all" American-made if the motor itself is made of imported parts that constitute a significant percentage of the appliance’s total manufacturing cost. Before claiming the product is Made in USA, this manufacturer should look to its motor supplier for more specific information about the motor’s origin.

Attaching the shell to a fully-assembled mechanism may present some issues, too...

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All the major components of a computer, including the motherboard and hard drive, are imported. The computer’s components then are put together in a simple "screwdriver" operation in the U.S., are not substantially transformed under the Customs Standard, and must be marked with a foreign country of origin. An "Assembled in U.S." claim without further qualification is deceptive.

Source: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/madeusa.shtm
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 10:15:38 AM by David K. Smith »

asciibaron

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Re: proud to be made in the US of A... ?
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2008, 10:08:45 AM »
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Are you saying that someone is "entitled" to a "living wage" regardless of whether or not he or she can provide sufficient work value to an employer to earn that amount and enable the employer to continue in business? Sorry, but that's what was wrong with communism and why it ultimately fails.

Perhaps I was lucky in that I could quantify my contribution to the "bottom line" in my last job, but I never had to "back in the door to get my paycheck".

you claim that there is no shortage of good paying jobs in the Southwestern Oregon, but you fail to realize that those jobs might require a bit more education than those jobs that exist for the unskilled labor force.  being trapped in a low wage job is typical of unskilled workers - they can not climb out due to the long hours and exhaustive work conditions of factory work.  some can overcome this but many are mired in a depression over their life.  add in the undocumented workers that work for even lower wages and pull down the entire wage base for unskilled workers.  i can see you have spent many hours studying the problem of the unskilled workforce and i defer to your authoritative knowledge.

then you chime in with the "communism" jab, but can you show me a single nation is has or has had a communist government?  the free market in the US is heavily financed by the federal government in low cost minority business loans, tax breaks, and minor contract rules in addition to the outright gaming of the financial markets and corporate bailouts.  seems like we are gaming the system to keep it going because a true free market leans toward monopoly and low wages.  but what do i know, i'm just some schmuck that bought into the whole "go to college, become a productive citizen, have a family"  while my neighbors enjoy the same lifestyle without ever finishing high school and live on the dole. 


-Steve
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 10:10:19 AM by asciibaron »

Denver Road Doug

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Re: proud to be made in the US of A... ?
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2008, 10:48:35 AM »
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don't get me wrong here, it is nothing wrong with made in China in my opinion - but didn't MTL deny that their products are made in China ?
or was that only wishfull thinking of a couple of Georges and Andys out there... ?   ;)

Steve, can you point me to where MTL denied they made products in China?  Thanks.
NOTE: I'm no longer active on this forum.   If you need to contact me, use the e-mail address (or visit the website link) attached to this username.  Thanks.

sparky

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Re: proud to be made in the US of A... ?
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2008, 10:57:07 AM »
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you claim that there is no shortage of good paying jobs in the Southwestern Oregon, but you fail to realize that those jobs might require a bit more education than those jobs that exist for the unskilled labor force.  being trapped in a low wage job is typical of unskilled workers - they can not climb out due to the long hours and exhaustive work conditions of factory work.  some can overcome this but many are mired in a depression over their life.

That's absolute crap.  The problem with unskilled labor jobs in the U.S. today is the ethic that has been instilled in American-born workers.  Many people today expect to be paid top dollar to exert minimum energy.  That goes against everything that the people who built this country believed.  Even with no skills, I could find you a job within a week in most areas of the country that pays $12.00/hr plus.  You know why illegal immigrants are flocking to the U.S.?  Because they're willing to work.  Being a contractor, I see it day in and day out.  Construction laborers (mixing mortar, heaving cement block, carrying drywall, cleaning up job sites) make good money, but it's hard work.  Landscape laborers can easily make $10.00-$12.00 plus to start, and much more once they gain experience.  In the summer, they can work as much overtime as they want.  I have a friend who works for a distribution center for a top 5 retail chain in the U.S.  They're starting unskilled warehouse workers (only a G.E.D. is required) at $13.50/hr with $.50/hr raises every 6 months until they top out at $19.50/hr.  The warehouse workers also get full benefits at an extremely reasonable cost: Health, life, disability, dental, and vision insurance plus 401k matched dollar for dollar and a company funded pension plan.  The catch?  You have to be willing to work.  I'm sick and tired of "economists" saying the U.S. is moving toward a "service based" economy.  To have any real wealth, you have to make things.  This country was built on ingenuity and manufacturing.  Service-based companies have only intellectual property to support their net worth- very limited liquid assets.  Look at eBay.  Their stock is so overvalued, it's ridiculous.  You disagree?  Look at Enron, WorldCom, Bear Stearns... I could go on and on.  Tell me what separates eBay from them?  Look at the price of crude oil and precious metals.  What drives that?  Speculation nothing more.  If the future markets investors weren't so zealous, gas would still be $2.50 a gallon.

Look back on the most successful American companies throughout history, many at 100 years plus.  What do they have in common?  They make things.  I have to stop this diatribe, because I could go on for hours...

Wake up, America.  

sparky

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Re: proud to be made in the US of A... ?
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2008, 11:13:42 AM »
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do you have practical experience as an unskilled worker? many of my relatives are stuck in low wage jobs because they can not make the jump to IT work from factory work.  pressing the big green button in a factory is unskilled work.  i worked in a factory as a summer job in college and it reminded me why i was in college - it's mindless work best performed by less intelligent people.

-Steve

Oh, that's rich.  Can the U.S economy really support 140,000,000 IT workers?  I don't think so.  Here's a simple fact for you: Guess who employs all the people you have such disdain for...  Your customers!  A healthy economy requires workers at all levels.  Someone has to flip burgers, someone has to change your oil, someone has to dry-clean your clothes, someone has to cook and deliver the food to your table when you want a relaxed dinner out.  Not everyone can acheive the divinity that is the IT professional.  The funny thing is, most of the laborers I know are relatively happy.  The IT people I know are sad, bitter, introverted, unhappy people who have trouble relating to other people who can actually challenge them instead of a non-thinking machine.

So tell me Steve, what are you going to do when you're in your 50's and the recent college grads are doing everything you do faster, better, and for half the pay?  Enjoy it while it lasts...
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 11:15:39 AM by sparky »