8-10 Sleeper

[SirTainly]

Does anyone make a WP/CZ 8-10 section Sleeper? IIRC the Kato one is 6-10.

[Sokramiketes]

8-10 section?  Not sure I know what that is. 

Kato included the 16 section sleeper, later converted to a coach in their set.  They also did the standard 10-6 as well.  The car that's missing from later years is the 6-5 sleeper, as no one makes that car yet.

[SirTainly]

hmm I took the information from an MS decal sheet for a car bought by the SP from the CZ pool, so no idea how accurate it is. The car was #862 Silver Canyon, haven't yet looked for this on Google.

[SirTainly]

ok I've answered my own question.

The car I need is not from Kato's CZ range but one of their Budd Sleepers.

the SP car

http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/business-car_photos/0252_sp-instrument-car-brian_paul_ehni.jpg

the Kato car

http://www.katousa.com/images/805166.jpg

[Sokramiketes]

Ah, things get a little hairy here. 

To match the windows, you want a Concor Budd 10-6 like this one:


The only problem with the ConCor model is that you need to patch in the skirting above the trucks, and if you're really good, scribe corrugations in the letter board.

If you use the Kato car, you have the correct skirting and letterboard corrugations, but are missing those 3 aisle side windows.  (The side of the car shown in the SP photo is the aisle side that you're worried about.)

I think there were three configurations of CB&Q 10-6's.  With three different versions in N scale, we're doing pretty well!

[SirTainly]

thanks, that's handy to know. Which three windows are missing on the Kato model? If they're the ones in the area that's had some windows already plated, I guess it would be possible to cut 3 new ones.

[Sokramiketes]

thanks, that's handy to know. Which three windows are missing on the Kato model? If they're the ones in the area that's had some windows already plated, I guess it would be possible to cut 3 new ones.

Counting from the right (non-vestibule) on the UP car shown above, the windows that would need to be cut into the Kato car are windows 2,4 and 6.

The opposite side of the Concor Car and the Kato car should be identical as far as windows go.

[jmlaboda - RIP]

"The car I need is not from Kato's CZ range but one of their Budd Sleepers."

The car you need is from the Kato's CZ range...

The car was build specifically for the California Zephyr to Budd plan 9509.  Western Pacific did not own any other lightweight cars other than the CZ cars, save for the two RDC2s that operated as the daytime Zephyrette.  Here are some links to photos of the car as it was under Espee ownership...

http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/business-car_photos/0252_sp-instrument-car-brian_paul_ehni.jpg
http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/business-car_photos/0252_sp-instrument-car-rob_sarberenyi.jpg
http://trackgang.railfan.net/images/sp-mw/research&test_sp252.jpg

The covered windows were applied by Espee when the car was converted by them to a Research Car.  The car was identical to CZ 10 Rmt - 6 DBR sleepers built for the D&RGW and CB&Q... here are some links for those cars...
http://www.jerryapp.com/arcv3b/ja-r330.jpg
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=755680
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=755681
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=739273
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=755569

[Walkercolt]

I have two friends that have the books and photos for passenger cars, and I depend on them for passenger car info. I just know they're long and sometimes shiney, or long and green and have 6 axle trucks. I know just enough about the interior arrangements to be dangerous. I know the Pennsey had some cars basically divided into fourths, and the NYC had something similar, but totally different, and if I look it up, I know what cars the Super Chief had in 1953, in the summer. I'm still learning to count ribs on ends of boxcars. ???

[Nato]

  The only non 10-6 sleepers on the Cal Zeph other than the 16 section cars were the later added delux cars used one to a train added in 1952 ,these cars contained compartments and drawing rooms. In the early 1970's N Gauge International offered a crude kit  for this car with brass sides & ends, a wood floor, and plastic roof Copied from the old Rowa Con Cor Budd Slumber Coach .                                            Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.

[SirTainly]

Mike, thanks for the help, I think I'll got with the Kato and cut the extra windows, I suspect I'll make a better job of that than trying to get the Concor one sorted, plus the Kato one is easier to buy.

Jim, this is the 10-6 from the Kato CZ set http://www.katousa.com/images/805234.jpg and its windows are not like those on the SP car at all. I realise the real car was for the CZ, but it's not the one Kato included in the latest set. Their Budd Sleeper is dead on apart from the window issues Mike has mentioned. Thanks for the photo of the other side though!

[jmlaboda - RIP]

"Jim, this is the 10-6 from the Kato CZ set http://www.katousa.com/images/805234.jpg and its windows are not like those on the SP car at all."

Whose Jim???

The image you linked to is the 16-Section sleeper, don't know who told you otherwise, not the 10 - 6 sleeper.  Here is a link to a shot of the CZ 10 - 6 sleeper... http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/protopass3_files/image080.jpg.  If you have any doubt just compare this image with the prototype images that I have already sent.  You will see where Espee covered certain windows, the same modifications you will have to make with your car.

You really ought to go to Fred Klein's "Prototypes for N scale passenger cars" website.  He discusses all models ever made and displays the differences in the various models, not just giving you a generalized summary.

[SirTainly]

"Jim, this is the 10-6 from the Kato CZ set http://www.katousa.com/images/805234.jpg and its windows are not like those on the SP car at all."

Whose Jim???

The image you linked to is the 16-Section sleeper, don't know who told you otherwise, not the 10 - 6 sleeper.  Here is a link to a shot of the CZ 10 - 6 sleeper... http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/protopass3_files/image080.jpg.  If you have any doubt just compare this image with the prototype images that I have already sent.  You will see where Espee covered certain windows, the same modifications you will have to make with your car.

You really ought to go to Fred Klein's "Prototypes for N scale passenger cars" website.  He discusses all models ever made and displays the differences in the various models, not just giving you a generalized summary.

Oops apologies, should have read your username better sorry. :-[

Hmm if I linked to the wrong image, then Kato has them the wrong way around on their site, which is not impossible. Head over to http://search.cartserver.com/search/search.cgi?cartid=s-1078&keywords=NBUDDCORR&maxhits=100&go=List+Parts&bool=AND&bool=AND and see what I mean, the CZ 10-6 sleeper is attached to the image I posted.

[SirTainly]

Ok I've checked on http://www.nscalesupply.com/KAT/KAT-PassengerCZSet.html and your are indeed correct. The pic is the 16 section sleeper, which is what Kato are displaying for the 10-6, which is what confused me. Thanks for helping sort this one out. Sorry again for misreading your name

[jmlaboda - RIP]

I really do hope that things go well with your kitbashing of the SP 252 car and looking forward to photos of the car once it is done.  It was a handsome car and it deserves to be remembered!!! 

One suggestion, you might consider foil that is intended for use as stainless steel to create the plate over the covered windows, though you will have to make sure that you have the area very smooth once you fill in the unwanted windows.  This foil (can't remember off hand who makes it) is something like .002" in thickness which would give a perfect effect for the covered windows.  I just don't know for sure what would be the best way to fill in the unneeded windows (maybe cutting the window inserts out for the windows that are to be covered, gluing the inserts in place and then filling the recessed areas with putty and sanding smooth???) but I really do hope to see this car completed soon!!!

As for the name... no problem... "jm" is my first and middle initials and a lot of people call me "Jim" on the forums... at least you don't spell your handle "Soytanly" (the term frequently used by Curley Howard of the Three Stooges)...

Best Wishes.