Wonder if MTL...

[DKS]

Moreover, I'm still shaking my head at the decision to ditch the low-pros and go pizza-cutter all the way.  I don't get it.  They'd already tooled for the low-pros.  Besides, most operators would probably either appreciate or be neutral on the pizza cutter issue, and for collectors, who cares how deep the flanges are if they're in a glass case?  Going pizza-cutters all the way only benefits those who need the deep flanges to correct for shaky trackwork.  I would content that most of the "backup derailments" that occur are not related to flange depth but instead to the unusual physics of the truck-mounted coupler.

Actually, Rick Spano and I have had some long conversations about the pizza-cutter vs. low-pro issue. He was not at all surprised that M-T dropped low-pros in favor of pizza-cutters. He visits loads of N scale layouts each year--now that he's retired, he tours the countryside all year long and runs regular open-houses. So he's a good source of broad-based information. He claims that very few N scale layouts he's seen run low-pros exclusively. He's found that most operators prefer pizza-cutters regardless of the type or quality of their trackwork. Rick has participated with operations on layouts with flawless track, and whenever there is a derailment, invariably the cars involved have low-pros. For his own layout, which features track and rolling stock from just about every manufacturer since the beginning of N scale, he has outright banned low-pros as the biggest source of derailments.

Rick hastens to add that it's M-T's low-pros that are the biggest culprits. Atlas' newer wheelsets, as well as most others, don't seem to be anywhere near as problematic. Recently he has agreed to let me test-run some equipment on his layout with Fox Valley replacements to see how metal low-pros perform, which are claimed to be somewhat better than plastic.

[Allentown Hump]

And remember folks, Rick's the expert. So what he says, goes!  :

[Dave V]

Good point.

I don't use many MTL low-pros.  They never seem to fit well even in MTLs own truck sideframes.  I use Atlas and IM low-pros.  I'm also thinking about getting some of the FVM wheelsets.

My Atlas cars that come equipped with low-pros never, ever seem to derail.  Not even on backups.

[wm3798]

We ran over 20 trains on Saturday over my layout, which is a combination of Atlas c55 (visible) and c80 (staging and yard tracks) and all lo pro fleet.  Each train was 10-20 cars, lots of shifting back and forth in locals and the yard, and I don't think we had any more derailments than would be typical whenever humans interact with machines.

I believe that MT's flanges ARE too small, and that, combined with truck mounting, adds to the difficulty.  Atlas plastic and metal lo-pros are not fine scale flanges by any stretch, and they track beautifully.  The few cars I've upgraded with FVM wheels, which are fine scale, have presented zero problems.

As for MT's business practices in general, 90% of what they produce I couldn't tell you one way or the other if they're accurate or not.  But the stuff I care about, when I compare an MT Reading billboard boxcar with an MDC, the MT's colors are wrong, the font doesn't look quite right, and it looks like a toy train car as opposed to a scale model.  Same thing when comparing a WM boxcar by MT with an Atlas master model.

The simple fact is that if it's going to cost money to do something anyway, why not do it right?  You won't lose your collector market, and you'll earn the business of those to whom these things matter.  (or at least quell some of the complaining.)

Lee

[seusscaboose]

We ran over 20 trains on Saturday over my layout, which is a combination of Atlas c55 (visible) and c80 (staging and yard tracks) and all lo pro fleet.  Each train was 10-20 cars, lots of shifting back and forth in locals and the yard, and I don't think we had any more derailments than would be typical whenever humans interact with machines.

I believe that MT's flanges ARE too small, and that, combined with truck mounting, adds to the difficulty.  Atlas plastic and metal lo-pros are not fine scale flanges by any stretch, and they track beautifully.  The few cars I've upgraded with FVM wheels, which are fine scale, have presented zero problems.

As for MT's business practices in general, 90% of what they produce I couldn't tell you one way or the other if they're accurate or not.  But the stuff I care about, when I compare an MT Reading billboard boxcar with an MDC, the MT's colors are wrong, the font doesn't look quite right, and it looks like a toy train car as opposed to a scale model.  Same thing when comparing a WM boxcar by MT with an Atlas master model.

The simple fact is that if it's going to cost money to do something anyway, why not do it right?  You won't lose your collector market, and you'll earn the business of those to whom these things matter.  (or at least quell some of the complaining.)

Lee

true.... and any cars (like 3) that we did have to bad order got the dreaded "Lee's special window treatment"

[John]

true.... and any cars (like 3) that we did have to bad order got the dreaded "Lee's special window treatment"

Were they Chessie cars?

[pfs]

true.... and any cars (like 3) that we did have to bad order got the dreaded "Lee's special window treatment"

Were they Chessie cars?

I'm guessing PC.

[wm3798]

I believe there were two Laurel Valley coal hoppers with MDC wheel sets, an old Trix depressed center car with Atlas lo-pros in MT buckeye trucks, and an 89' TOFC with MT lo-pros (which were swapped for Atlas last night!)

Lee

[Greyryder]

I've got a few cars running MT lo-pros, and I have no problem with them tracking fine. The only derailments I evr have, involve me forgetting to throw a turnout the right direction. The only problem I have with the MT lo-pros are that they're plastic. I just preffer metal wheelsets.

Pizza cutters have been banned from my layout, for being too ugly to live, and offering no benefits over better looking wheels.

[Sokramiketes]

I don't really care if people need big flanges to overcome poor trackwork or not.  The issue with me is that, if MTL cared enough to do the right thing, they would shave ~.005" off the flange on the Pizza cutter to make an NMRA compatible big flange wheelset, that would work on everyone's track and be compliant. 

Lo-Pro's may not be for everyone, and I don't care who uses them or not.  But, to continue to hang on to the tooling for the non-compliant pizza wheels is absolutely assinine.

[pfs]

....But, to continue to hang on to the tooling for the non-compliant pizza wheels is absolutely assinine.

Exactly, its that arrogance that I can't understand as well.

I guess they really do not care what the industry/end users think of them.

They get my money in couplers, but its far and few between for them to get my loot for rolling stock of late.