Wonder if MTL...

[Catt]

 ??? I guess I must be the only member of this website that read all the ad copy including the fact that the car is a special run for a LHS.

Or is it you guys just want to bash Micro-Trains?

[Norm P]

Or is it you guys just want to bash Micro-Trains?

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

[Chulvis]

Hey, Chuck! Ricky from Challenger in Tussa, Okra-homer! How you doing? If Richard doesn't order the new 86' boxcars, I might be needing a Chuck-Pack.

Whoo-Hoo!

You going to Louisville, Ricky?

[3rdrail]

OK, what's wrong with this car??

[img width= height=]http://lh5.google.com/Gregg.Mahlkov/Rlmblr3tbWI/AAAAAAAAAJE/dHLriBeeDPY/s400/WSRX228.jpg[/img]

If this is a toy, I'm in the wrong hobby!

OK, I asked WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS CAR? Any of you MTL bashers, like Ed, care to educate me?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I'm not familiar enough with the car to tell you, my point was mainly that recently they're MUCH more interested in doing "not-quite-close-enoughs", and outright fantasy stuff that they really don't seem to be able to focus on getting prototype stuff right.

I know the argument that all that cutesy crap helps keep the lights on, and I even am willing to say that it's worth it if it means they can do good other cars.

But what ARE those good other cars coming out right now that the crap is subsidizing?

The Alaska RR 89' Flats?

I mean, what cars make it worth it for you all?

For me, there's very little that they do that are worth their prices to me, but I'd like to hear the explanation from others who do partake.

[wcfn100]

For me, there's very little that they do that are worth their prices to me, but I'd like to hear the explanation from others who do partake.

40' PS-1, still the best after 30 years.

Jason

[Chulvis]

I'm not familiar enough with the car to tell you, my point was mainly that recently they're MUCH more interested in doing "not-quite-close-enoughs", and outright fantasy stuff that they really don't seem to be able to focus on getting prototype stuff right.

I know the argument that all that cutesy crap helps keep the lights on, and I even am willing to say that it's worth it if it means they can do good other cars.

But what ARE those good other cars coming out right now that the crap is subsidizing?

The Alaska RR 89' Flats?

I mean, what cars make it worth it for you all?

For me, there's very little that they do that are worth their prices to me, but I'd like to hear the explanation from others who do partake.

Ed, I'm not sure that you are dissecting the marketplace into enough fair slices. It appears to me that your approach is from a very strict prototype perspective. That's fine it that is what you want to do. Spending money on hobby items should be a careful decision as it is, after all, our disposable income.

However, there are a lot of people out there who do not hold manufacturers to the same level of fidelity that you do. I dare say that they outnumber the prototype modeler by a long shot, so the MTL offerings are fine by them. Additionally, there are a lot of people that are prototype modelers that buy MTL products because there is little chance they will ever see a particular car from another manufacturer, eg: last months Napierville Junction boxcar. Who will ever make that again anytime soon?

Now, I realize that MTL products leave a lot to be desired in terms of ride height, prototype fidelity, the slinky effect of their couplers and on down the line, but your argument regarding their price holds no water with me.

Say what you want, but the fact of the matter is that they make their products in the USA and that just cost more, plain and simple. Does not matter if they are producing Smokey Bear or UP Box Car Brown...it just cost more to do it here. When you consider that many of the cars they do have multiple colors the price is going to go up. We have on occasion seen this from other manufacturers as well.

I would love to see MTL update the tooling of many of the cars they produce, but I suspect they know that doing so would drive the cost up so far that they would be priced out of the market. Given that I'd rather they continue doing what they do and have a product made in the USA. I respect that commitment to their employees and their business.

I am all for better models, but the old adage of "If you don't like it, don't buy it" is truly in play here. The MTL monthly bash has gotten old and is no longer entertaining. I don't understand why we continue to do this month in and month out. Obviously something is working for the people up in Talent, OR or they would have been gone long ago, so move on, you're beating a dead horse.

[ljudice]

Look for me, the occassional useful car - not to mention the many useful bodies which can be stripped and repainted are worth all the stupid commemorative schemes.

My issue with MTL is:

 - Lots of superb tooling - which rarely, if ever gets run
 - Ride height of some of their models, which I then have to fix
 - Lack of thorough research on paint shemes.

We'd be sunk without MTL - and their monthly releases are the most consistent things in N-scale, and I'm sure they are doing fine without my suggestions, but they still annoy me!

Lou

http://www.mountainrails.com

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I can live with everything else. The birthday cars, dead presidents, dumb state cars, even ride height... if they got the paint schemes right. They rarly ever do. They need to split the line into prototype, and fantacy. They need it clearly labeled on the box "this car represents a different prototype then tooled" or so forth.

[Greyryder]

I'm far from a rivet counter, so their prototype based are generally close enough for me. But, if they're no longer inclusing the good wheelsets in their cars, as I've heard, then I see myself buying Atlas metal wheesets for my few MT cars.

Mostly, I just buy their couplers. Accumates just don't cut it, for me.

[Nato]

  The car is no worse than the Glow in the Dark AEC Waste disposal covered hopper car from Delux. No I didn't buy the three pack ,only a single car. Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.

[FrankCampagna]

Microtrains is a very small company. They can't produce large numbers of anything. They already split the HO/N business. How much more can they split off. As stated they make a lot of things no one else does. Thank you Chulvis. I was ready to suggest a sticky for the regular bashing of MT, MR, Walthers, and whoever else draws the ire of the moment. I too am tired of it. Don't buy the fantasy cars, haven't bought many of the others, lately. But a lot of the stuff I have is from them, and  it is good to have them around. Frank

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Chuck made a good point. I keep thinking about MTL from my own position, but I seem to have forgotten those things I learned while in the biz. There are far more people for whom "close enough" is just right. They're generally much happier.

Maybe my dislike for them comes not from my dislike for them, but my dislike for the "cutesy" atititude that I think actually does some of us a disservice. I guess it feeds back into that whole thing of wanting to be taken a bit more seriously as modelers. You don't see stuff like this in the model aircraft, model ship or model car industries, do you? (I'm not sure, actually, so I'd like some input there).

I think that the hobby definitely has a perception "issue", and I think that it's negatively affected by people on both extremes, the annoying rivet counter who says you're not allowed to have fun if it's not proto:48, and the "happy birthday" crowd blowing their wooden whistles. I mean, really, neither seems really aspirational from a marketing perspective, right?

Could it be that these two stereotypes (and combinations of them both) are what gets images like Reverend Lovejoy's infamous "next stop lonely town" quotes into the Simpsons, or the quote here (not quite PG...) at 0:34 : http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation/3001-Zero-Punctuation-Devil-May-Cry-4
or any one of a number negative portrayals of the hobby in the popular media.

I'm not really sure, but I feel like it may be food for thought.

What do you all think? (and btw, thanks Chuck for getting me started... I WAS trying to be productive today...)

[Kisatchie]

...You don't see stuff like this in the model aircraft, model ship or model car industries, do you? (I'm not sure, actually, so I'd like some input there)...

M&Ms and Nascar:

http://www.mms.com/us/racing/

and click on "Skip Intro"...

Micro-Trains is looking mighty good.

[Dave V]

Every now and then MTL comes out with a winner.  They've done a few PRR MOW pieces lately (an X29 and a 2-bay hopper).  Those are slightly outside my era, so they're currently on the "if I see them discounted at a train show or eBay" list.

I have a number of MTL cars, including a rather nice PRR X29 REA car with updated doors and brake equipment that makes the rounds on my passenger train.

Now, it does seem that lately there are more of the collectables and less of the prototype cars.  Moreover, I'm still shaking my head at the decision to ditch the low-pros and go pizza-cutter all the way.  I don't get it.  They'd already tooled for the low-pros.  Besides, most operators would probably either appreciate or be neutral on the pizza cutter issue, and for collectors, who cares how deep the flanges are if they're in a glass case?  Going pizza-cutters all the way only benefits those who need the deep flanges to correct for shaky trackwork.  I would content that most of the "backup derailments" that occur are not related to flange depth but instead to the unusual physics of the truck-mounted coupler.

So I'm left scratching my head.  I don't want MTL to go away; they make great stuff when they want to.  And I do appreciate that they're made in the good ole' US of A.  But at a rate of more than twice the Trainman price (granted, MTL is typically much more detailed), it would be hard to flesh out a full roster using MTL products.

So I check every month to see what MTL has to offer.  If the collectables pay the bills, fine.  I just hope MTL has something I want every few months.  But I give MTL a little credit for having a broader perspective on the hobby than I do, given that I only look at it through the lens of my own objectives.  For me, I'll keep buying the one-seys and two-seys if they meet my prototype/era needs.