What do you think guys?

[ljudice]

I agree - I follow Euro-N (in fact I do some Euro-N modelling) and with the exception of decals (which are not doing so well here now either), the small part, detail business is growing there.

I think the difference is that Germany, for example is a much smaller country anyone can drive to a good RR shop. Though Ebay is huge there, people patronize the large RR hobbyshops, which would put almost any remaining US hobbyshop totally to shame. There is just no way that small shops or webtailers are going to handle 36 million little tiny parts, and there is no way you're going to pay $6.00 Priority mail to have them shipped to you.

So - yeah - the detail business in the US - if you ask me - is dead!

http://www.mountainrails.com

[Mark5]

heh, my post was interpreted as a doom post.

[RDG_Rich]

heh, my post was interpreted as a doom post.

I just re-read it...

If there's no market for N scale parts then that does not bode well for N scale.

If everyone is satisfied with generic three chime or generic five chime horns then N scale is getting pathetic. There's a lot of fussing or whining about an access door being 6" too low, missing sight glasses and whatnot, but nobody seems to care if their locos have the wrong horns.

I find this to be an odd contradiction.

I've been in N scale for nearly 40 years, but this may someday drive me to HO scale ...

Maybe  "does not bode well" is to be read as " doomsday" or maybe it meant " Comparatively speaking, N scale does not have the same options for modeling as does HO"  but regardless, it is similar in tone as at least one post in this thread, and it sounds exactly like many other posts in many other threads on different forums. That is why my post started with "doomsday!". Not trying to single you out, as a chicken little in the least.

You mentioned whining in your post, as if it were "other" people who were whining about sight glasses, or access doors being too low, but in the same breath (or sequence of keystrokes) you mention "generic" horns. Isn't that the same as whining?

Honestly, I am not trying to torque your chain, or start a flame war, but how can you point fingers at "whiners" when in the same post, you mention your distaste or displeasure with the lack of prototypical horns, and then follow up with "this may someday drive me to HO scale"?

This is what I meant when I said

I think OUR problem is that we are just too darn picky! You can't please every person, every time.

By OUR I am referring to N scalers in general. They get to see what the grass looks like on the HO side of the fence, and immediately start bawling that they are the redheaded-step-kid of all the scales, but only a few people grit their teeth and work through the problems associated with their chosen scale, by MODELING.

I know for a fact I will never get everything I want in N scale, but I know it is available in HO... I am sure everyone on this board has a "wish list" of stuff, and they could easily have it if they "came to the dark side".  And I am sure that at least some percentage of HO or O scalers look at what N scalers can accomplish and drool...like the ability to model the Horseshoe curve with limited selective compression, or run 100 car freights on an average basement sized layout.

So, If the lack of detail parts, horns, or rolling stock that existed only for 2 years from 1899-1901, or that no one makes decals for the "BFE Short Line" makes people convert to HO.. Fine. Leave. As the saying goes "don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya".

If it is THAT important to these people to have them in N scale, then they need to start building the stuff themselves, at least then they will have done something to support the scale, rather than whine about it as they drop a couple of Benjamins on the latest releases...just to turn right back around and whine about what they just bought.

So, Have I stooped? yep. And for those of you who just wasted 5 minutes of your life reading this post, think about how I feel, after spending 38 writing it.  :

NandW...seriously not an attack on you personally.

[ljudice]

The lack of detail parts or decals for that matter are not killing the scale. Actually it looks like every manufacturer is going up market - sound, etc...

What it's doing is killing the hobby many of us knew when we entered it. 

For me personally, given that I have about a million unfinished kits, decalling projects, kitbashes laying around I have come to the conclusion that it's time to enjoy the other parts of the hobby - like finishing an actual layout!

[Mark5]

hehe. ;D

I wasn't whining, I was pointing out the apparent contradiction (at least I thought I was) of people screaming about this or that "minor" error on this or that diesel while at the same time (through silence or ignorance) ignoring the fact that the loco has the wrong horn(s) for certain roads.

Or maybe I missed all the threads about "Hey the new GPU44B-W has the wrong horns!"   

The context of my post was a discussion about the availability of detail parts in N scale.

Well, maybe I was whining ... 

Cheers,

Mark

[cv_acr]

On the other hand, a horn is _really_ easy to change, even on an RTR factory painted model. Body errors, even really minors ones, not so much for most people. (Especially on a factory painted unit)

[Mark5]

On the other hand, a horn is _really_ easy to change, even on an RTR factory painted model. Body errors, even really minors ones, not so much for most people. (Especially on a factory painted unit)

This is true - assuming said horns are actually available.

If you're going to all this trouble to superdetail your unit with cut levers, mu hoses and such, why is that everyone seemingly oohs and ahs while ignoring the horn error? (where applicable)

Mark
(resident Devil's advocate)

[TrainCat2]

I hope none of you mind me chiming in with my generic horn on this subject.

After seeing the requests on all forums for the details items that are diminishing, I recently made the investment. I now have a spin caster in my workshop. Although detail parts will NOT be my main product line, I will start to offer Sunrise equivilent items soon. As always, I will be listening to all of you for which Sunrise items should reproduced first. I am/will be working with some of you to make new parts that maybe road specific.

I have also branched into the etched detail arena since some companies are not producing them for the newer cars. Two manufacturers have been VERY nice to provide a sample of their new car. First offering will be a detail upgrade for the Atlas 50ft Stockcar and the new 50ft Boxcar that uses the same Stockcar roof. I also have a Atlas Cupola Caboose upgrade kit with both wood/grated walkways, ladders, steps, railings, etc almost done. I don't mind adding these upgrade kits on to sheets of other items where I have unused space. I believe that this will benefit both builder and myself.

I hope these additions will help.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Bob, I suggest the following parts:

Some of the odd horns: stuby 3 chime, various 5 chime, Hancock
Some of the odd sized plows (large SP style, F unit style, debris kickers)
Air filters... the types used on rebuilt Geeps, a model MANY kitbashers build
Headlight castings and glusters like single CN style lights, Barrel lights for BN/SP/WP, pyle and mars dubble light castings for adding nose lights.
Winterization hatches (etched of course)
EL/CR cab singnal boxes (I need over 100!)

For a second tier release:
CN style intake snow shield
various spark arresters
speed recorders
rachet and wheel brakestands (the LL GP18 lacks one)
pIII GP9 fans
MU cables
Some odd bells: hood mounted with etched backet, gongs, steam/switcher style

And a 3rd tier release
etched thin wall EMD cab with open doors
etched drop steps
etched blank DB hatches (for rebuilt GP7/9 units with blanked DB blisters)
etched toilet hatch
MU stands
brake cylenders

[nscalesteve]

while ignoring the horn error? (where applicable)

Mark
(resident Devil's advocate)

here we go you horn feti you...
...at least some horns are still available

http://www.miniaturesbyeric.com/

NH1
3 chime diesel horn



NH4
3 chime nathan diesel horn



NH6
horn & brackets RS3



NH8
BCR Horn



NH11
E chime horn



NH12
3 chime forward horn



NH15
Amtrak horn



NH16
F unit single chime horn



NH17
Hancock horn


and now the bells...
...na, go to the website and have a look http://www.miniaturesbyeric.com/

[Mark5]

hehe, I know about Erics ... someone tell that guy to invest a couple hundred bux and get (or borrow even!) a decent camera. :

So pray tell, what model horns are those? (please list manufacturer and model).

I could probably make an educated guess if I ordered all of them so that I could actually see them.

Yeah, I know I'm being a squeaky wheel. Lowering is important isn't it?

[sirenwerks]

Bob,

Replacement parts might be a consideration, like etched screens for the Atlas MP15DC and the recently announced GP15. I would like to see replacement screens for the Atlas GP38, 40 and their dash 2 counterparts as well. And etched replacement stair treads for locos, c-thru! Maybe even replacement cabs and noses? Like for chopped nose Geeps? I know there are a number of differences, but I get the feeling that N scalers want to detail, they just have little or a shrinking lot of resources to draw on. you may want to see what is still available before you start, as Mocalvo makes some of the aforementioned air filters (though I just noticed their web site's disappeared). My vote goes to the phase 3 GP9 fans too.

[Iain]

Sweet, that 'Amtrak' horn looks like the horns NS used on Baldwins.

I wouldn't mind BLW style MU stands (for cab units and hood units) with the holes pre-etched so all the modeler has to do is install the hoses.  It takes me a few tries to get one good looking MU stand.

[tehachapifan]

Bob,

Replacement parts might be a consideration, like etched screens for the Atlas MP15DC....

You may be pleased to know that MLE Scale Models actually has this one on the drawing board (which would explain all of the MP15DC shells that can be seen all over my workbench!). ;D

Russ

[wm3798]

I'm glad to hear that Bob and others are picking up some of the slack in the parts department.  The key to success will be the supply line, though.
Detail parts are one of those things that a lot of guys, or at least this guy, picks up at the LHS.  I believe we like to see what it is we're buying, partly to make sure we're getting the right thing, but also so we can eyeball it to see if there might be any other applications, or any potential challenges in installing them.

Also, If you just need a couple of doo dads, it's hard to justify doubling or tripling the cost of the item to allow for shipping.

Lee