GE 70-ton project update

[randgust]

I've been tinkering with this now about six months. It's finally to the point where the 'prototype' model using cast and etched parts is complete.

This is on a stretched Kato 11-105/6/7 chassis; I won't reveal the secret of just how I did that until I get the copyright filed, but the exterior result is coming along nicely.

 

The cab isn't glued down on this as I need it removable for painting. It's not as tight to the frame and hood as it will be. I also wouldn't necessarily recommend putting the handrails on until AFTER painting, and they are just pressed into place, so they aren't 100% perfect yet either.

I had a lot of help from Chris getting this etched process along. That's why it looks as good as it does!






Etched railings, steps, grabs, end sills, the works. Resin hood, cab, stack, sideframes. Cast metal fuel tank and interior weights.

Now, here's where I need your comments and help.

I'm not really in love with that cast metal fuel tank, but it adds a lot of weight. The whole model with the cast fuel tank and three cast body weights (the top cab weight is a separate piece and you can leave it out if you need the space or want to detail the cab) weighs 57 grams! That's six grams more than a Kato NW2. And with that one traction tire and the weight concentrated over the power truck, it also outpulls it. This reallly, really, runs good, and also has room for DCC and has room for a Faulhaber if you want to push it that way too.

I've also cast the fuel tank in resin, looks much better. So it's a tradeoff. Should I a) just do it metal even if a little rough b) do it in resin, enough weight already or c) offer the option of either way?

That low-temp cast metal is expensive, too, and there's four weights counting the tank. Would you rather see it as a standard item, left out as a buyer issue (would probably save $10?), or priced separately as an option?

I'm not taking orders....not yet. I am trying to get a feel of how big the first run should be because the photoetching is so complex I'm going to have to outsource it. I'm looking at a price 'probably' in the $65 range, but that will depend how the costs come back on the etched parts, which is also a function of order size....

So if you want to be on the contact list and help me determine a likely body count here, send an e-mail to 70-ton@randgust.com where I'm accumulating this stuff.

I'll be posting more pictures as I paint it here; I'm doing it for a local road that had two of them and has a wonderful demo paint job that is a Salzberg-road scheme like early WAG. Jamestown, Westfield & Northwestern #600 & 700, a trolley line that went diesel for only two years (1947-51) before abandonment; the diesels ended up in Iowa on the Des Moines & Central Iowa RR.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I like the "dealer option" idea.

The one thing I'd say is that the cab windows look a little "melty". It may just be flash, but they just don't feel too "sharp".

[Mark5]

Looks pretty good - the fuel tank castings can be "cleaned up" by the buyer - that should'nt be a big prob.

There is obvious variation looking at the tops of the sideframes (middle pic) - I assume this is a test eh?

Question: how well does this chassis run at realistic speeds? (ie between zero and 20 mph)

[randgust]

That first set of test sideframes got beat up unmercilessly fitting and testing.  I should probably replace that set, I suppose, as I have piles of sideframe castings now.  I'd originally made the sideframes for a 44-tonner with the equalizer bracket on the top, that now gets cut off. 

Windows are always problematic in resin as you can't make a mold without filling them in with something.  I use .005 styrene on the master, that means it has to be trimmed right back out as flash on the casting. The other thing you'll always hit with resin is minimum practical wall thickness of about .020.  When it gets painted it looks a lot better, as the resin also seems near-translucent and reflective at the edges.  If you cast parts any thinner they bubble like crazy, and you can't get them off the mold, either.  I ruined about 50% of the SW1's and gave up on it because of that one.

It's always astounded me how translucent resin looks at this point and how sharp it can look after painting.  You can't even see the woodgrain on the Climax until it is painted, let alone the rivits.

Note how 'melty' the 18-ton looks here vs. the painted one:
http://gustafson.home.westpa.net/Clim1806.jpg
http://gustafson.home.westpa.net/Clim180602.jpg

See the rivit lines on the tank and the boiler?  Invisible until paint.

The Kato critter mechanism is always fast; I think it's controllable with the 12v motor and quit converting mine over to Faulhabers about the time the 12v motor replaced the original 3v motor with the resistor.  But there's enough room in the hood that there are a lot of powering alternatives if you want to spend the money.  I designed the frame extension to hold either the original Kato motor or a Faulhaber 8mm.

[engineshop]

Have you thought about casting just the outside part of the tank which would be attached to the weight? The part would be a layover like the the trucks. You still would have the weight but the resin pieces would give the nicer detail.

[randgust]

I've had that suggestion now twice, so I'll definitely have to try it.  That is a good idea.  I'd been trying to max out the weight and that turns out to be pretty much of a non-issue.  I can loose a gram or two without much penalty here..

Oh, and by the way- I'd put the "M&M" motor in this to test it (9v pager with the planetary gear reduction on it).  It topped out a 9mph which was great for a Climax but lousy for a switcher and I pulled it.  I'm thinking that the new Motorman gearhead/motor might be very nice for it, I'll have to find out that too.

[Iain]

I wouldn't mind the metal fuel tank

[up1950s]

How about this . Resin outer edges for the cleaner profile , and cast metal centers for the weight . All you need to do in resin is 1/8 profiles of that gas tank , air tank assembly . knock off 1/8 from both sides of the metal casting . Best of both worlds .

And by the way , it looks very nice , especially with the knowledge that the handrails , and pilots are perfect , and done  , except for the bending and installation .

EDIT ... So NOW I read all the posts , and find out everybody else had the same idea . Crap .

[TiVoPrince]

Perhaps
a little madness on my part but why not embed the metal into the resin casting when it is poured?  Got to say I have much love for the sharpness if the steps and pilots.  I do wonder if the cab would benefit from etching rather than casting.  Thinner walls ( maybe some interior detailing options) and sharper corners would have Mr. Wallet open for business...

[randgust]

If you look at the etched 44-tonner that came out a while back, you'll see why I'm counting on resin, particularly for GE.  You have compound curves at the hood edges, rooftop, nose, etc.  Not well suited for engraving at all.  The all-etched one looked like it was made of folded cardboard.  And, on a Kato critter, it naturally wants to short out everything when the pickups are at full set.

While I love Grant's F45, I think about everybody that's tried it has had the most difficulty with getting the edges and joints good between the etched roof portion and the resin body.

And you really CAN'T pour resin into brass.  The resin will run into places that air can hardly go.  It would leak around the sheets in all directions.

Now the tank casting is another matter entirely.  Richie, the first test of resin sides and a cast metal center was a complete success.  Photos to follow.

If the only way people want this is as an all-etched model, then I'm done.  This is already as much etching as I can stand, and trying to even get anybody to take it on for production may defeat it yet.  The inclusion of the etched parts will easily double the cost, and it takes several days to make just one set of etchings at home.  That's not particularly practical either, though its made for a great expiriment.

[wcfn100]

Does this match the drawing MR 'cyclopedia vol. 2?  I assume it'll be about the same.  I think I'll start some FDDM&S decals tonight, now just to pick which era...



Jason

[randgust]

Here's the way I'll be painting this up.  This started as a pair of these 70-tonners on the Jamestown, Westfield & Northwestern (JW&NW aka Jesus Wept & No Wonder, supposedly coined by a Methodist minister at Chautauqua when he saw the track condition).  They were purchased by Salzberg interests; same people that bought the Wellsville, Addision & Galeton and put the ex-Ford 132-ton GE's in the identical paint.

They 600 and 700 left the JW&NW and went here, even kept the numbers, just got relettered above the black stripe instead of below it.   There are no color photos on the JW&NW but this is just a honey:

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/shortlines/DCIR.htm

I've already done up the decals, as I can do about anything in any color as long as it is black.  Paint is on the way...

[up1950s]

I want a pair when they go into production .

[randgust]

OK, here's what I came up with.



I put on new sideframes, this 'hybrid' metal/resin tank idea, and reposted the photos, so if you don't get why the cast metal tank shots dissapeared, that's why.

I'm painting now and that has its own set of challenges!

[up1950s]

Tank mod turned out wonderful Randy , as did the rest of the model .