Author Topic: Canadian Newsprint Boxcars  (Read 5676 times)

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cv_acr

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Canadian Newsprint Boxcars
« on: December 12, 2007, 06:52:27 PM »
+1
Split off from the Hubert's Top gon thread...

I still want to see CP/CN newsprint cars.

Yeah, wasn't there a thread floating around to see if there was enough interest in a resin model?  If not, I wonder if this may be an opportunity for FVM to produce these cars...

I think there are at least three types of the NSC "newsprint" cars, maybe more (I'm no expert).

FWIW, I sent an email to FVM last week regarding the newsprint cars... no response as of yet. Given their very nice boxcars releases so far, FVM is my choice for these (hope they agree). Might be a good idea for those interested in these to email FVM as well.

CN noodle scheme
At least two CN.CA schemes
CV
DWC
CN.CA with CV and DWC reporting marks
CP brown script newsprint service
CP green "pine tree"
CP green w/multi-mark
CP green w/o multi-mark
QGRY re-stencils of CP cars w and w/o multi-mark (and I've seen one QGRY re-stencil of a CP brown script newsprint service car)

Lots of possibilities...

Hawker-Siddeley (HST) newsprint svc. boxcar, built 1965.
This design was only ever built for one series of CP boxcars (CP 80000-80966). These were the only 50' paper boxcars to carry CP's brown script w/ large Red Newsprint service shield logo. There is no accurate model in any scale for this car. 50' PS-1s have often been used as stand-ins, since the side sill profile is similar, and the ends are _somewhat_ similar if the top ribs are removed, but the roof, number of side panels, ends and height are all wrong.
http://freight.railfan.ca/cprail/cp80503.jpg

Some of these cars are still in service with CP, and many were sold to QGRY.

National Steel Car (NSC) inside-post newsprint cars, built approx. 1964-1976

early production: (1964)
Tabbed side sills, riveted side panels. Similar to the Proto1000 car in HO except for the side sills, so could be very easily bashed/detailed from this model.

CN 353000-353399 built 1964, renumbered CN 401000-401399 in 1966.
http://freight.railfan.ca/cn/cn401059.jpg

middle production (from about 1967-1970)
Continuous drop side sill, riveted side panels. This is the PRoto1000 model, with two types of plug doors available. CN (CN/CNIS and DWC, CVC), CP (CP/CPI), BCOL (rebuilt to other series?) and MDW (later sold to CP (CPAA 866xx series)) all had cars like this, although the underframe cushioning differed on some. (eg. the CP and CPI cars had a hydra-cushion underframe. the CN cars are closest to the P1K model, but all have the same body)
The CN and CN familar (CVC & DWC) cars were all painted with yellow doors when built to signify the newsprint service. The yellow doors started to get painted over in the early 1980s. Most recently in the 2000s era the smaller "noodle" came into use and the website url subsequently added to the scheme.

CN 400350-400599 built 1968, renumbered CNIS 400350-400599 in 1970
http://freight.railfan.ca/cn/cnis400537.jpg
CN 400600-400999 built 1967
http://freight.railfan.ca/cn/cn400742.jpg
CN 401483-401882 built 1967
http://freight.railfan.ca/cn/cn401516.jpg
CN 401527 from the above series, with one of a kind promotional paint job (on one side only, the other side was standard) Life-Like did this scheme in one of their earlier releases and these can still be found in hobby shops.
http://freight.railfan.ca/cn/cn401527.jpg

CVC 402000-402499 built 1969
http://freight.railfan.ca/cv/cvc402066.jpg
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-37160
DWC 403000-403149 built 1969
http://freight.railfan.ca/dwp/dwc403000.jpg
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-37157

CP 80967-81216 built 1967. These cars were delivered in the teal/green Pine Tree scheme, and the only cars ever to carry this paint scheme. Most of these are still in service with CP, although repainted into later paint schemes.
http://freight.railfan.ca/cprail/cp81137.jpg

CPI 85001-85499 built 1968, gradually renumbered to CP reporting marks by 1982. These were the first cars on CP with the multimark. Some of these were sold to QGRY.
http://freight.railfan.ca/cprail/cp85399.jpg
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-37154

CVC 402500-402999 built 1970 is somewhat of a transition, with riveted sides like other cars built in 1969 but a straight sill like CN 404000-404399 below, built in 1971.
http://freight.railfan.ca/cv/cvc402644.jpg

later production (from about 1971-1974)
two more side sill variations, welded side panels and larger doors on some later cars. If you scratchbuilt new sides for the P1K ends & roof you could bash some of these.

CN 404000-404399 built 1971
http://freight.railfan.ca/cn/cn404025.jpg
CN 407000-407099 built 1973
http://freight.railfan.ca/cn/cn407079.jpg
CN 411000-411399 built 1974
http://freight.railfan.ca/cn/cn411330.jpg

DWC 403500-403749 built 1973
http://freight.railfan.ca/dwp/dwc403568.jpg

general service sliding door version:
CNIS 417000-417249 built 1973
http://freight.railfan.ca/cn/cnis417236.jpg

National Steel Car exterior-post 50' boxcars (from about 1975-1990)

Newsprint versions built for CP (CPI,QC), CN (CNIS), Ontario Northland (ONT) and door+half for GTW. Double door versions (plug or slider) were built for CP, Northern Alberta Ry. (NAR) and British Columbia Rwy. (BCIT). Sylvan scale models has most of these variations covered in resin kits in HO scale.

CPI 85500-85634 built 1975, renumbered to CP marks ~1978
CPI 85635-85734 built 1977, renumbered to CP marks ~1978
http://freight.railfan.ca/cprail/cp85681.jpg
QC 75100-75299 built 1980, most of these sold to QGRY
http://freight.railfan.ca/cprail/qc75206.jpg
CNIS 413000-413199 built 1980 & CNIS 413200-413599 built 1989-90
http://freight.railfan.ca/cn/cnis413154.jpg

GTW 309550-309699 built 1979
http://freight.railfan.ca/gtw/gtw309605.jpg
ONT 7600-7629 built 1977
http://freight.railfan.ca/ont/ont7625.jpg
ONT 7700-7799 built 1981
http://freight.railfan.ca/ont/ont7777.jpg
ONT 7400-7449 built 1990
http://freight.railfan.ca/ont/ont7443.jpg

Modern cars
NSC hi-cube cars, x-post with horizontal stiffeners.

60':
CP 220000-220624 built 2002
http://freight.railfan.ca/cprail/cp220186.jpg

50':
FBOX, built 2004
http://freight.railfan.ca/ttx/fbox502404.jpg

Ian MacMillan

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Re: Canadian Newsprint Boxcars
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2007, 07:29:44 PM »
+1
Love the CP newsprint cars. They were such a staple of MEC's Rigby yard up until quite recently.
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Ryan87

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Re: Canadian Newsprint Boxcars
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2007, 07:35:51 PM »
0
It would be awesome if these cars were made in N! A must have for Upper Midwest & Northeast modelers. (and Canada too obviously) There's a rumor that a new N scale manufacturer is considering them however if this comes to fruition it will be a couple years yet at least. (they have other projects on the go)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 07:37:59 PM by Ryan87 »
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lock4244

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Re: Canadian Newsprint Boxcars
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2007, 09:52:55 PM »
0
Wow, thanks Chris... nice list!
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daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Canadian Newsprint Boxcars
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2007, 02:22:00 AM »
0
I need some 64+ CN boxcars!
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daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Canadian Newsprint Boxcars
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2007, 04:37:48 PM »
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Good news.... FVM says they DO have drawings of the 50' cars, but no decisions on production yet.
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lock4244

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Re: Canadian Newsprint Boxcars
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2007, 03:50:46 PM »
0
I need some 64+ CN boxcars!

I have no actual idea of what quantity I need, but I view these cars in the same light as the cylindrical covered hopper in terms of HIGHLY NEEDED, IN VOLUME! I have 209 of the cylindrical cars (and counting)...
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cv_acr

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Re: Canadian Newsprint Boxcars
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2007, 04:05:18 PM »
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209, wow. This type of car is definately the sort of thing that tends to travel in fleets, especially if your model RR supplies cars to about 3 or 4 paper mills. (2 on layout, and at least 2 more as off-layout destinations, plus through/bridge traffic from other mills & destinations).

In this photo of the main sorting yard on the layout, you can see a fair number of paper service boxcars on the middle two tracks (by the red S2 switcher engine). Really careful searching finds a couple more on the second and third occupied tracks, waiting for pickup or sorting. Many more will be in staged or in-transit through trains, spotted at paper mills or storage tracks. I don't know how many we really have, but there's a good fleet, and as we expand the layout we'll probably need more. (There's a lot of stuff, like all our ore trains that aren't running yet)


daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Canadian Newsprint Boxcars
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2007, 08:05:23 PM »
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While on the CR Cyclopedia, I found this little gem:
http://crcyc.railfan.net/crrs/box/cr231789.jpg

This ex-RDG car looks very close to the first gen CP newsprint car:
http://freight.railfan.ca/cprail/cp80503.jpg

Asside from the door, the major difference I spotted was an extra end stifener on the RDG car. Where these used by anyone else?
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Re: Canadian Newsprint Boxcars
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2007, 08:11:23 PM »
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The sill looks thicker on the CP car when compared to the RDG. Oh, and one other minor detail, the CP car has riveted sides and the Reading car is welded...
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cv_acr

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Re: Canadian Newsprint Boxcars
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2007, 10:12:16 PM »
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The Reading car is a 50' Pullman-Standard car. Lots of models of those available, and the 50' PS-1 model is often used as a stand-in for the CP Hawker-Siddeley car because of the side sill and _similar_ appearance.
They are not the same. The HST car is 11' inside height, the P-S car is most likely a standard 10'6". That's the biggest difference. That half a foot in height is noticeable when two cars are beside each other. Also, as mentioned, that Particular PS1 is welded, while the CP car is riveted. The PS1 also has the rather distinctive reinforcement gussets at the door corners, a signature Pullman-Standard trait.
Oh, and the Pullman-Standard car would have a bow-tie pattern Pullman-Standard roof, the HST cars have diagonal panel...

No one else had identical cars to the CP series.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2007, 10:14:01 PM by cv_acr »

Mark4

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Re: Canadian Newsprint Boxcars
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2007, 12:15:20 AM »
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I think I have drawings of the NSC version somewhere. If the demand was healthy enough (say a total of 1000 units) I think we could pop out a high-detail resin and etch kit for around $15 without trucks and couplers with discounts for quantity. A local company has developed a really impressive resin casting method that produces excellent detail and high throughput. Tooling is quite a bit more costly than traditional resin casting but it is capable of thousands of parts without degradation of the mold.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2007, 12:43:57 AM by Mark4 »

daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Canadian Newsprint Boxcars
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2007, 08:49:31 AM »
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Mark,
Does this method involve rigid molds? I have heard some companies are moving to soft metal molds constructed like injection tools. The resin is injected under slight pressure but not as high as styrene injection molding.
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Mark4

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Re: Canadian Newsprint Boxcars
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2007, 01:39:48 PM »
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Mark,
Does this method involve rigid molds? I have heard some companies are moving to soft metal molds constructed like injection tools. The resin is injected under slight pressure but not as high as styrene injection molding.

Not fully rigid but very different from silicone.

daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Canadian Newsprint Boxcars
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2007, 12:58:30 AM »
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Does this new resin casting method alow for pad printing?
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