Author Topic: Thinking Ahead...  (Read 2253 times)

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wm3798

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Thinking Ahead...
« on: November 02, 2007, 09:28:55 AM »
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Assuming that I eventually get the front bedroom renovated for Andy, and that my 16 year-old gets a full scholarship to attend Notre Dame, I've started thinking about extending the layout into the main part of the attic.  This is what I've sketched out so far...



I want to get more main line run for the Connellsville Sub without tearing up (too much) what I've already built.  I would break the line where it currently loops back on itself behind the paper mill, and cut a couple of holes in the wall to get into the next room.  The new line would basically be a shelf layout running around the walls, then back along the railing at the stairwell, then cross another lift bridge to get back to the existing Connellsville line where it crosses the river at the front edge of the layout.

As you can see, I've accounted for Keystone Viaduct and Salisbury Viaduct, in geographically correct order.  I could easily construct the Salisbury section as a One Track module (or I could sweet talk John into letting me have his!).

The junction at Rockwood would be cool, as it would provide a live interchange with the B&O and my fictional Laurel Valley (which I have operating in place of the WM trackage rights over the B&O Johnstown Branch to Somerset).  Eventually, I could build an entire representation of the Laurel Valley from Rockwood to Latrobe via the old Turnpike tunnel at Laurel Hill.

As in the prototype, there wouldn't be much switching action on the C-ville sub, but the longer run and a new passing siding would definitely create a good railfan's layout on that side of the wall.

Once I breach the wall, I'm thinking there might be a way to extend the staging yard under the layout a bit, but that would be quite the engineering challenge given the way it's buried under the scenery.

It's all just pushing pencils at the moment, but the around the wall stuff could be built pretty quickly and economically...  What do you think?

Lee
« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 09:37:19 AM by wm3798 »
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Iain

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Re: Thinking Ahead...
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2007, 10:23:16 AM »
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Looks fine.  Could you just do separate staging under the extension?  Then you can have it connected to the other end of the layout.
Thanks much,
Mairi Dulaney, RHCE
Member, Free Software Foundation and Norfolk Southern Historical Society

http://jdulaney.com

wm3798

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Re: Thinking Ahead...
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2007, 10:48:32 AM »
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I've been thinking about that.  To expand the current staging yard would take some engineering, because it would involve breaking the one-turn helix that currently leads to staging and extending the loop into the next room so I could add 2' to the length of the staging tracks.  While it would be the most difficult to rebuild, it would keep the operating schematic the same, allowing eastbound trains to enter the staging, and just roll through to become new trains re-entering the layout at the west end. 

If I broke the Connellsville main and made it a point to point with new staging in the other room, I would lose that run-through, plus have to figure out what to do with the existing Connellsville track that runs in front of the paper mill.

There will be additional staging in the other room on the Laurel Valley, which would operate as a point to point, and be the destination of several coal trains, and through freights bound for Latrobe and the PC.

Which, by the way, could be connected to the current PC staging at North Junction, creating more of a live interchange, one end being North Junction, the other being the PRR main at Latrobe.  But that would be phase 4...

(Phase 1 is what I've got so far, 2 is finishing what I've got so far, 3 would be the proposal we're discussing here, and 4 would be completing the Laurel Valley to Latrobe.)

BTW, is there anywhere I can apply for a grant or two to do all this? :-X

Jay Gould
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Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

up1950s

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Re: Thinking Ahead...
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2007, 10:54:19 AM »
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If I were in control , I would add an at least 6 track double ended , and main line feed , open staging yard to feed that beloved enhanced main line more varied trains . Two CCTV cameras at the throats would feed two small monitors at the main panel , so the remoteness of that staging yard is of no real consequence .

SquirrelHollow

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Re: Thinking Ahead...
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2007, 07:10:22 PM »
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If I broke the Connellsville main and made it a point to point with new staging in the other room, I would lose that run-through, plus have to figure out what to do with the existing Connellsville track that runs in front of the paper mill.


Don't do it!  Keep the main intact.  If this hypothetical comes to fruition, just add staging in the 'other half'.  Find a way to make the interface (interchange) work well with the existing layout, and you'll probably be happier than being stuck with 2.5 P2P layouts.

Do you have the same elevation challenges in the other room?  (slanted walls)  If not, you might be able to show the laurel valley in all its glory.... on a second level.

I would just hate to see you break the main in Connellsville.  You seem to be loving the ability to send a train around the room while you work something else.  Almost every post, since that day, mentions something about running multiple trains and being able to use your staging. 
-Robert

Uintah Railway, Utah Railway.

wm3798

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Re: Thinking Ahead...
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2007, 07:15:14 PM »
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The other room is also an attic space, but the pitch of the roof there is like 17/12, so a second, narrow shelf wouldn't be out of the question.  And, the space over the stairwell could easily handle a 36" helix without anyone bumping their heads.

Yeah, I really want to keep the staging the way it is, but maybe find a way to make it a bit longer so my minimum train length can be 20 cars give or take.

Lee
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Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

wm3798

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Re: Thinking Ahead...
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2007, 04:44:26 PM »
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Measured, Scaled and Refined...


A couple of features:
Salisbury Viaduct:  http://www.wmwestsub.com/connellsvillesub/salisburyviaduct01.jpg
The prototype is over 1900 feet long... I can manage about 6', or about 960 scale feet.

Keystone Viaduct:  http://www.wmwestsub.com/connellsvillesub/keystoneviaduct03.jpg
This will be considerably truncated and the curve much tighter, but it will curve the correct way!

Rockwood Jct.:  http://www.wmwestsub.com/connellsvillesub/rockwoodjctmap.bmp
Not quite track for track, but the overall configuration matches the prototype.

Pinkerton Tunnel: (sorry, no link for that one...) Conveniently located to provide a prototypical "hole" in the wall to get back to the current layout.

I'll be quietly developing more detailed plans of the various segments so I can begin assembling benchwork in the garage...  Meanwhile, I'll send my team of expert lawyers to meet with the local land owners about granting the necessary right of way... :P

Lee
Rockin' It Old School

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

SquirrelHollow

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Re: Thinking Ahead...
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2007, 05:39:10 PM »
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What happens after the Wye?  Is that the end of the road?  Are there any plans, or are you just trying to take it a bite at a time?
-Robert

Uintah Railway, Utah Railway.

wm3798

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Re: Thinking Ahead...
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2007, 07:38:46 PM »
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Big plans for the wye...
That's Rockwood Junction, where the B&O Johnstown Branch meets the B&O, and also connects with the Western Maryland.  On the prototype, the WM utilized trackage rights over the B&O to reach some remote company track around Somerset, PA, serving the coal mines at Grey.

In Lee World, the line becomes the Laurel Valley Railway, my free lance short line that I brewed up back when I modeled the early Conrail era.  The LRV extends from Rockwood to Somerset, then uses the old South Penn route to get under Laurel Hill (the turnpike tunnel was abandoned in 1964, so it's plausible that a rail link could have been re-established in time for my current modeling era of 1968-72).  From there, the line makes its way up to Quemehoning and Ligonier, then follows the former Ligonier Valley up to Latrobe for a connection with the Penn Central.  The history of the railroad has been revised from being an early Conrail spin-off short line to a surviving Pennsylvania narrow gauge that adopted 4'8-1/2 during the 1930's, then successfully petitioned the state to get the tunnel. 

Whether the LRV uses trackage rights over the B&O is up in the air, because I like the idea of having a live B&O interchange as well, but that's a tale for another time.  At the very lease I could do a B&O interchange at Somerset for traffic continuing on to Johnstown.

Anyhoo, the other side of the stairwell is another large part of the room, which is currently occupied by my daughter, with space for my eldest who is away at college.  I don't think I could get away with building a layout over their stuff they way I have with Andy...  But the 5 year plan (Gracie is currently 16) is to use that space to build out the Laurel Valley, and include a representative mining operation at Somerset, the tunnel, a large quarry such as exists at Quemehoning, and the various industries around Latrobe.  There would be a small yard at the company's HQ in Ligonier, fashioned around the nifty old passenger station there that still exists.

One interesting prospect would be to get all the way to Latrobe with it, and make the current PC interchange at North Junction double ended so cars can be routed to a PC staging track that serves both ends of the railroad.

That's the story of the wye!  Are you sorry you asked?

Lee
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Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

keystonecrossings

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Re: Thinking Ahead...
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2007, 06:51:57 AM »
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Lee... I love how things change...

When we camped in July, I asked "What's beyond the entrance, in the next room?" Your answer was along the lines of "unusable". But by the end of the weekend it was "maybe staging".

Love to see that the wheels kept turning. I guess you didn't have that extended family invasion you were fearing?

Attic or no, you will have a truly stunning layout by the time it is complete!
Jerry Britton, PRRT&HS #6111
PRR Middle Division in HO Scale - http://jbritton.pennsyrr.com
Keystone Crossings - http://pennsyrr.com

wm3798

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Re: Thinking Ahead...
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2007, 07:04:54 AM »
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Thanks, Jer.  Yeah.  Damn you for making me think about the next room...

You should think along the same lines and unbutton some of those turnbacks on yours... ;D
Let those Centipedes stretch their legs out a bit...

Lee
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Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

keystonecrossings

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Re: Thinking Ahead...
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2007, 01:37:54 PM »
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You should think along the same lines and unbutton some of those turnbacks on yours... ;D
Let those Centipedes stretch their legs out a bit...

I assure you there are many places I have planned for connections into the next room. The amount of time it will take me to complete and scenic the current portion is about the same time needed to get the kids on and out of college. Then the next room is mine!
Jerry Britton, PRRT&HS #6111
PRR Middle Division in HO Scale - http://jbritton.pennsyrr.com
Keystone Crossings - http://pennsyrr.com

Mark5

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Re: Thinking Ahead...
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2007, 02:21:59 PM »
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heh, I've been thinking ahead to ... the next house. :P

I keep running into this or that constraint in the current house. Must keep these in mind when building the next house (in about a decade).

But Lee, I love your layout. I envy the amount of space you have. Keep up the good modeling.

SquirrelHollow

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Re: Thinking Ahead...
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2007, 05:59:48 PM »
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That's the story of the wye!  Are you sorry you asked?

Lee

Nope.  A few bits and pieces had been explained, but that's what I was looking for.   ;)
-Robert

Uintah Railway, Utah Railway.