SERIOUS THREAD - into trains but know nothing?

[sparky]

It's a hobby.  You're supposed to relax and have fun.  I love to watch NFL football games, but I don't understand much about the mechanics of it as far as the x's and o's go.  Of course I know the positions and the basic plays, but it's an incredibly complicated game.  Does that make me a bad fan?  I don't have the time or the inclination to learn every last detail.  My wife's uncle has one of the largest Lionel collections I have ever seen, dating back to the 50's.  He also used to work in a hobby shop, but it was almost exclusively O scale.  I showed him my N and On30 stuff once and tried to explain DCC to him and his eyes glazed over like I had hit him upside the head with a brick.  He knows absoultely nothing about prototype trains and has never built a kit.  Does that mean he should find another hobby?  His trains bring back a lot of fond memories for him and once in a while he'll set up a figure 8 and run some trains- working signals and all.  He loves his trains, just in a different way.

[Iain]

i have been coming across more and more people who are into model trains but no knowing about the prototype...

...are these the same people which are using Kato Unitrak maybe... ?   

(I,m using Kato Unitrak as well - on my testloop...)

Hi, my name is Mark, and I .... I use Kato Unitrak (but only on a test loop!)

(it's true, I do)

If it's your only track...

[wm3798]

Is it possible that the declining knowledge about prototype railroading is correlated to the declining exposure most Americans have to it?  Think about it.  Outside of commuter corridors, we don't go anywhere on the train anymore, employment by the railroads is a fraction of what it once was, and even grade crossing removal projects allow railroads to almost invisibly do their work.  Intermodal makes the public face of a long-distance train a trailer.

Yes, there were lots of guys having fun whizzing their Lionel's around the basement, but a lot of those same guys probably rode to work on the 6:15, or had occasion to go down to the depot to pick up a parcel from the REA agent.  And odds are he had to stop at a grade crossing at least once in a while.  And if he didn't work for, or ride to work on a railroad, odds are he worked in an industry that was served by one.  They may not have known the difference between an Alco and a Baldwin, but they sure as hell knew what a railroad was.

Today we're a lot more insulated, and we don't really learn about things we're not exposed to.
Lee

[MrKLUKE]

.

[Nato]

   You're never too young or too old to learn something new, take it from this 62 year old geezer who sometimes thinks of himself as a "Reevet Counter" . Ya gotta be open minded and recieptive to to different ways of doing things and remember model railroading is suppose to be fun. BTW The Q E 2 is in the port where it was built for the last time ,then she sails to Dubi where the ship is going to become a floating hotel. Nate Goodman .

[Train Nutz]

Do you know what is even stranger?
      I once talked to a BNSF engineer holding a train for clearance and asked him which model locomotive he preferred to operate when on the road. His answer threw me for a loop when he answered back that he didn't know the difference between models (Dash 8's or 9's, AC4400's, SD75's / GE's or EMD's, etc) and had no idea which loco he was presently operating. I told him he was in a EMD GP 39M in blue & yellow paint scheme with the BNSF patch out below the road number. With all the info inside and out like manufacturer' builder's plate, road applied model type applied on sill's and other assorted info found about, you would think the engineer would of glanced over at something once to see what he was driving??
At lease I would of....
Train Nutzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 

[asciibaron]

His answer threw me for a loop when he answered back that he didn't know the difference between models (Dash 8's or 9's, AC4400's, SD75's / GE's or EMD's, etc) and had no idea which loco he was presently operating.
 

he was pulling your lariat. 

engineers know the makers and models - they are required to know what type of locomotive they are using - AC vs. DC traction motors - where the various mechanical bits are in the long hood - control stand differences, operating characteristics, etc. 

and...

all the engineers i know and have spoken with have a bias toward one type of locomotive, so he would at a minimum know the make and model of the one he loathed.


-steve

[asciibaron]

Lee makes a good point - not as many suburbanites are exposed to trains, just crappy mall fashion and cheesy pop music.  i don't think you need to be a rivet counter to enjoy the hobby, but one would think that a person interested in trains might have at minimum a passing knowledge of the types of cars, know the make of locomotive, or know that steam is no longer used in mainline service (there are now a few exceptions).

it boggles my mind that some exposure to the models hasn't imparted a tinge of knowledge of the prototype.

-steve

[TrainCat2]

Sometimes, we can't see the picture because of the picture. Know what I mean Vern?

[lock4244]

There have always been people who consider their ignorance a source of pride.

This is far better than those who know little or nothing but think they know it all (and are only too happy to share their mis-information).

[Mark5]

Do you know what is even stranger?
      I once talked to a BNSF engineer holding a train for clearance and asked him which model locomotive he preferred to operate when on the road. His answer threw me for a loop when he answered back that he didn't know the difference between models (Dash 8's or 9's, AC4400's, SD75's / GE's or EMD's, etc) and had no idea which loco he was presently operating. I told him he was in a EMD GP 39M in blue & yellow paint scheme with the BNSF patch out below the road number. With all the info inside and out like manufacturer' builder's plate, road applied model type applied on sill's and other assorted info found about, you would think the engineer would of glanced over at something once to see what he was driving??
At lease I would of....
Train Nutzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 

Bizarre. I always wanna know the specs of stuff I'm using. Maybe he was just messin' with ya. You'd think that'd be part of the job training ...

[David Leonard]

I can understand folks who don't know much about what they model--they're in it for the enjoyment--but I do not understand people who are proud of their ignorance. But I guess it's the same thing as people who think they know something but are not open to the possibility that they're mistaken.

My problem is that if I know too much about the prototype, I become dissatisfied with my attempts to model it. I solved that by modeling several railroads. With one I pay attention to detail and try my best, and with the others I regard overall similarity as "close enough."

BTW sometimes I literally do count rivets (such as when installing trainphone lines on Pennsy diesels--six rivets in from the edge of an E8) so please be careful about your comments on "rivet counters!" 

[pedro]

engineers know the makers and models - they are required to know what type of locomotive they are using - AC vs. DC traction motors - where the various mechanical bits are in the long hood - control stand differences, operating characteristics, etc. 

and...

all the engineers i know and have spoken with have a bias toward one type of locomotive, so he would at a minimum know the make and model of the one he loathed.

You may be surprised that this is not always the case, and as a BNSF engineer I don't doubt Train Nutz' story for a minute. Bear in mind that the VAST majority of railroad employees do not, whatsoever, share our interest in the details of railroading, real or modeled. They are there because it's just a job that pays well, end of story. Many engineers went "into the program" only because it pays a little more.

The lack of knowledge in the modern class 1 engineer is sometimes frightening. There are those out running who have difficulty changing operating ends on a consist, let alone being able to tell you the difference between an AC and DC locomotive. Of course these ignoramuses are the exception; most engineers are going to have an opinion about what they like/don't like and know their equipment. And, some engineers might know the differences based soley on the number series, as in, "oh, that's one of those new 9300's", or, "aw, crap. A 7200 in the lead", or, "hey, these 7700s have nice seats". But there is NO WAY that your average engineer could pick out an AC4400 out of a string of C44-9Ws. I would bet good money that 95% of them couldn't do it without reading the stencil.

These things are covered pretty thoroughly in the "mechanical" portion of the engineer training program, but not much after the fact. When a locomotive goes down in the field the first order of business on the newer locomotives is usually to call up the mechanical desk and have them walk you through the troubleshooting. The solution sometimes involves rebooting computers, opening various electrical cabinets and pressing reset buttons that you did not even know where there. I know that I have not been given any materials or training on our newest locomotives. It's largely a "learn as you go" proposition.

It's a strange business, mostly filled with people who will never, ever understand a railfan's or modelers interest in the details.

As to how this relates to the original question? Just as there are professional railroaders who know very little about their equipment, it shouldn't be surprising that there are modelers who know very little about their equipment. The real question is, who cares? Let them be happy, just as you do what makes you happy. They're all just little %$&@* toy trains, no matter how you spin it.

Pedro

[FrankCampagna]

I like TrainCat2's post. Only I'm several rivets short of a full pack  : : :. The thing that continues to bother me is the seeming intolerance toward people who have an approach to modeling. Call me old fashioned. I'm working on a kit for an RPO. I'm studying old topographical maps to better understand the route my chosen RR would have taken. I have a logical locomotive and equipment roster for the line.  But if someone enjoys running double stacks behind steam, let him have their fun. It's not like skiing, or shooting. You do something like that, and nobody gets hurt. Frank

[RS-27]

Aww, Frank, you beat me to it.  I think that that should be a classic quote (even if the photo is nut & bolt castings...) (hey, another version of rivet counting/nitpicking).

As to what floats someone elses boat, I am willing to accept that, but I hope that if they wave that as a flag of pride (they are ignorant) that they don't expect others bow to it (leastwise me).

Bob in IDaho