On the other hand... $50 for a DPM built up?

[Sokramiketes]

Unfortunately the trend in our hobby is no longer what you learn, its about what you can spend.

Unfortunately, I think Lee hit all too close to the truth here... S'pose that's just us old farts' way of thinking, though.

I wouldn't call you an old fart, but certainly retirees have a different value of their time than someone like Ed or I might have.  I do the full time work thing, I do the part time gig at the Hobby shop evenings after my real job and on weekends, I do CAD and Solidworks drafting on a consulting basis for MRR companies as well as for my own stuff, I'm active in an N scale modular club, I mess with my car and go racing in the summer...

Ed seems to be the same way, he's got a full time job, he's active here, he does website design work part time, he's done the hobby shop thing too...  We've got different things to learn than the previous generation.  It certainly doesn't mean we're lazy, or just out to spend big money. 

We just ration our time differently, and making money part time so we can spend money on trains, rather than going cheap on everything and being tied into MRR'ing (no time to make money on the side) is closer to our true motives.

[up1950s]

drop an X-acto in your lap...

...I will never understand why those stupid things have a round handle !   

Makes it much easier to cut proper smiles in your hand .

[up1950s]

As to built up worth . If we didn't have to devote so much time massaging our locos and rolling stock into proper looking and running models , maybe folk would be willing to turn their preciously limited modeling time toward buildings . How many hours do we spend with couplers , ride height , trucks , regauging , conductivness , and in Toms case , weathering to die for . I don't think anybody , except the owners of very small layouts , or the rich , could buy all built ups . But some models may catch ones eye , as that gas station that was showcased the other day did mine .

[wm3798]

But carry the argument to a logical extreme...  I don't want to spend time building kits because I have to work all the time.  I work all the time, so I make enough money to buy expensive hobby stuff.  I have to buy expensive pre-built hobby stuff because I don't have time to build kits.  I have to work all the time so I can afford to buy expensive pre-built kits.

But Mike, I do see your point about the passenger equipment.  You want to do precise modeling there.  But a generic town structure won't be scrutinized the way a particular piece of rolling stock will be.  Accuracy is the value of the Kato Super Chief, and as a mass produced item, it's worth the "slightly" higher price tag (compared to their standard issue passenger sets of a few years ago.)  I'm the same way.  The Atlas Fishbelly hopper is indeed my salvation.  The thought of scratchbuilding 200 hoppers is indeed unnerving.

But, on a structure, with a little creativity and a dollar's worth of Sculpy, a few pieces of styrene and a color printer I can assure you, I can achieve detail nirvana for far less than $50.  And as for my time, well, that's mine already, so I don't have to pay for that.  And again, I feel really strongly that one of the purposes of a hobby is to advance your skills in many areas as far as you can.  People who shy away from this concept and just write a check are missing the point, in my opinion.

My father made a hobby of building doll houses for his grand daughters.  He built one for my sister entirely from scratch, including 1"-1' studs, 16" o.c.  The rest he found basket cases at yard sales, or purchased inexpensive kits.  He put a lot of time and detail into those things, and yes, I dare say some coin.  But the finished product we have now is all his.  Now that he's gone, It's nice to know that his heart was in it, and his hands were on it.  If it was something bought off the rack and dropped on a stand, I don't think there would be the same connection we have to it now.

I believe our hobbies and the things we create for them are a part of who we are.  I'll take a project I do for myself, even badly, over a store-bought something any day.

Lee

[Sokramiketes]

But carry the argument to a logical extreme...  I don't want to spend time building kits because I have to work all the time.  I work all the time, so I make enough money to buy expensive hobby stuff.  I have to buy expensive pre-built hobby stuff because I don't have time to build kits.  I have to work all the time so I can afford to buy expensive pre-built kits.

Lee

I put in 40 hours a week at a typical job. 

The rest of the work I mentioned I consider as part of my hobby.  So I'm just prioritizing my hobby time differently.  Sometimes I think it would be nice to just have the time to sit at my workbench more.  But, there is so much to learn about the hobby from working in the shop... seeing buying trends first hand, different perspective on modeling than one gets on the forums, helping newcomers, having to deal with and fix equipment I wouldn't typically purchase on my own to learn about deisgn flaws and strengths, making aquaintances that have similar interestes or that missing piece of information and research I've been trying to find, mingling with historians and railfans for whom the modeling aspect is secondary, etc.  I do the consulting work on the side for the same reasons... to increase my exposure to the world of manufacturing toy trains.  I'd like to be able to create something on the level of a Kato Super Chief someday.  Wouldn't that be the ultimate modeling goal?  To be able to precisely model like that?  So I learn how to cut injection molds, run a molding machine, run a pad printer, etc.  That's my goal.  I want to continue to improve my abilities beyond being able to paint and decal nicely... I want to know how to get the ultimate, legible, pad printed lettering on a car.   In the meantime, I'm facinated with what other companies are producing and how they make their stuff.  Charlie Vlk regularly compares his consulting work to modeling.  He's got his own legacy in the bazillion different paint schemes Broadway is doing on E units. 

Buying the ready built kit isn't adding to anyone's legacy, I won't argue against that.  But, maybe people are working on a different legacy, and the building is just filler... my goals for working are much more than being able to buy an expensive buiding as you suggest.

[Mark5]

To sound like a polyanna, there are many different ways to enjoy this hobby. Maybe some people obsess with it to the point that they don't enjoy it. I don't know. And its not my problem.

I'll keep buying kits as long as they are available. These built ups are not aimed at me, but they are aimed at some segment of the market, which they believe is substantial enough to support the product. If the market isn't there, the built ups will lose money, and ultimately disappear from the offerings.

I hope there isn't a market for Sponge Bob Micro-Trains ... ;D

[bobcat]

I hope there isn't a market for Sponge Bob Micro-Trains ... ;D

There is...my 5 year old son. ;D

[SecretWeapon]

I spend the $$$$ because since I got sick,I can't build them anymore.

[Iain]

Two jobs, volunteer work on the weekends, and college fills most of my time.  Luckily I can combine time spent with my girlfriend with time spent on the layout...

[Skip]

Iain,

You and your GF spend your time "on" the layout, huh?

[tom mann]

Iain,

You and your GF spend your time "on" the layout, huh?

This should be the start of a great multitude of jokes...

[wm3798]

That explains why he wanted to model a vast swamp with fake fur... and the use of foam rubber instead of extruded... ;D

Lee

[Pomperaugrr]

What, no tunnel jokes yet? 

[Ed Kapuscinski]

The worst

[Sokramiketes]

FAIL