Something to Make the SPF's happy

[TrainCat2]

And when you're talking small numbers, the difference between a run of 50 and a run of 100 can be quite a difference in per item cost.

I disagree.  In resin casting the costs are first of all quite small as compared to plastic injection.  You make a master copy.  You do this once.  You then take that master and make your rubber molds.  Let's say you make ten of them.  Now depending on several factors each of these molds may be good for 10 maybe 20 castings or more before they need to be recycled.  So what is our per item expenses?  The resin to make each car [we're talking ounces here].  5-10 % for each mold and a small percentager for the master which can be used over and over and over and over.  So you buy a gallon of RTV rubber for about $30.  How many molds can you get out of that?  Maybe 10.  Now for resin, you buy a 2 gallon kit for about $100.  How many cars can you make with that?   Well let's assume each car required 2 ounces of resin.  There are 128 ounces in a gallon, that is 64 [128/2] cars for each gallon.  You have 2 gallons so that is 128 cars. Allow about 20% for defective casting.  Let's say we end up with 100 cars  So each car costs 100/100 or approx $1.00 in resin.  Now for the RTV.  Each mold costs $3.00 [$30/10]  and you can get 10 cars from each mold.  That adds $.30 to each car.  So each car costs  a grand total of $1.30 in per item cost.  Now double that amount to allow for extra like brake wheels, grabs, etc. or allow the modeler to add them as well as trucks and couplers of his own choosing.  The modeler will also paint and decal it.  We package them in a ten pack and ship them in USPS boxes with yesterdays newspapers for cushioning.  Buyer pays for shipping.  Now how much are you going to sell the car for?  Are you going to sell it for an amount that is equivalent to one for a car I can buy in a store that comes RTR with trucks and couplers and is assembled and painted?  [granted it will not be the same car but we're using it as a price comparison].

I do not mean to be trite, but you are overlooking many costs associated with production.
1) A Brass sheet has an non recoverable engineering cost of $310 to produce the first one (this does not account for the design time either). If you make 25 units, thats $12.40 in additional unit cost regardless of how many units fit on a sheet. At 100 units, the additional costs drop to $3.10, etc. So run size does matter here.

2) Decals. There is a mins involved. Again, divide the costs by 25 and then 100.

3) Molds. This little Ore Jenny requires a three piece mold due to large undercuts and extended body parts. It takes three sessions of clay/declay/pour rubber processes per mold. That's roughly three days. Is this time free? Oh, and about 1 pound of rubber for the multi-part mold. Quotes I got for professional molds were $65, and up, per mold.

4) Casting. Do to the nature of the hopper, the resin must be de-gassed so you can use use the 50lbs of air pressure you will need force the resin into all the mold cavities. So you have elctricity and time to degass. After you pour the resin, it goes into a pressure vessel where 50lbs of air pressure removes all of the remaining air bubbles and eliminates voids while the resin cures. This process requires constant air pressure over 2.5 hours. So you have electricity costs for the compressor cycling.

5) Packaging. The ore Jenny may be slightly different, but imagine getting 10 Micro-Trains delivered to you in a postal box with yesterdays newspaper. That image is not a professional one, or at least one I want to be associated with me. Ten packs would be an idea though.

6) Shipping. Each item and sub-component listed here must be shipped to you. This is the overhead of the company and a portion must be included in the item cost.

7) Overhead. Salaries, benefits, electricity, air conditioning, computers, equipment, supplies. All of these add into the cost of the item. Forgive my bluntness, your cost calculation would put you of of business rather quickly.

[keystonecrossings]

Bob, the PRR signal bridges look awesome. I will eagerly await pricing and more details.

Quick approximation indicates I need about 15 Lines East and 8 or so Lines West.

[John]

So, are there distinct style differences between east and west, and where would the west start ..

[TrainCat2]

So, are there distinct style differences between east and west, and where would the west start ..

Pittsburgh.

John, go to my site for photos of the two different bridges.

[John]

Got it .. I see the difference ..

[keystonecrossings]

So, are there distinct style differences between east and west, and where would the west start ..

Pittsburgh.

John, go to my site for photos of the two different bridges.

As Lee Corso would say on ESPN's "College Gameday"... "Not so fast, my friend!"

Yes, the traditional "Lines West" started at Pittsburgh. But with regard to the Lines West style of signal bridge, that was not the case. There are many examples of this design well east of Pittsburgh. I believe the farthes ones east are at MG interlocking, just west of the Horseshoe Curve, west of Altoona. There are also some along the RoW as you cross the summit near Cresson/Gallitzin.

Here's a pic of MG...

[nscalesteve]

I do not mean to be trite, but you are overlooking many costs associated with production...

boB I have to agree with you (who thought that... ?) 

I did stop argue with people who are not willing to pay what I charge for a detail/paint job - let them do the job by themselves - most of the times the answer will be "but I can't do it by myself, I don't have the skills" - THEN PAY FOR IT FOR GOD SAKE !

[nscalesteve]

I disagree.  In resin casting the costs are first of all quite small as compared to plastic injection.  You make a master copy.  You do this once.  You then take that master and make your rubber molds.  Let's say you make ten of them.  Now depending on several factors each of these molds may be good for 10 maybe 20 castings or more before they need to be recycled.  So what is our per item expenses?  The resin to make each car [we're talking ounces here].  5-10 % for each mold and a small percentager for the master which can be used over and over and over and over.  So you buy a gallon of RTV rubber for about $30.  How many molds can you get out of that?  Maybe 10.  Now for resin, you buy a 2 gallon kit for about $100.  How many cars can you make with that?   Well let's assume each car required 2 ounces of resin.  There are 128 ounces in a gallon, that is 64 [128/2] cars for each gallon.  You have 2 gallons so that is 128 cars. Allow about 20% for defective casting.  Let's say we end up with 100 cars  So each car costs 100/100 or approx $1.00 in resin.  Now for the RTV.  Each mold costs $3.00 [$30/10]  and you can get 10 cars from each mold.  That adds $.30 to each car.  So each car costs  a grand total of $1.30 in per item cost.  Now double that amount to allow for extra like brake wheels, grabs, etc. or allow the modeler to add them as well as trucks and couplers of his own choosing.  The modeler will also paint and decal it.  We package them in a ten pack and ship them in USPS boxes with yesterdays newspapers for cushioning.  Buyer pays for shipping.  Now how much are you going to sell the car for?  Are you going to sell it for an amount that is equivalent to one for a car I can buy in a store that comes RTR with trucks and couplers and is assembled and painted?  [granted it will not be the same car but we're using it as a price comparison].

OK, HERE IS MY ORDER... !



240x QNS&L Ore Car (like the one on the picture)  US $5.20 per piece
(w/o trucks and couplers but with all the etched parts included)

[TiVoPrince]

Choices
are seldom a bad thing.  Knowing your skill limits is essential.  I won't be rebuilding any vehicle motors or repiping my house anytime soon.  Keeping that in mind means reserching and wisely choosing a car mechanic or plumber in my case...

[TrainCat2]

So, are there distinct style differences between east and west, and where would the west start ..

Pittsburgh.

John, go to my site for photos of the two different bridges.

As Lee Corso would say on ESPN's "College Gameday"... "Not so fast, my friend!"

Yes, the traditional "Lines West" started at Pittsburgh. But with regard to the Lines West style of signal bridge, that was not the case. There are many examples of this design well east of Pittsburgh. I believe the farthes ones east are at MG interlocking, just west of the Horseshoe Curve, west of Altoona. There are also some along the RoW as you cross the summit near Cresson/Gallitzin.

Jerry,

Take a look at the pic on my site. IIRC, that was either Delaware or New Jersey. I will check on that.

[Mark5]

I draw the line at air conditioning. I refuse to pay for your air conditioning. 

[inkaneer]

Don't forget that the per-unit cost NEEDS to take into account the time needed for the creation of the mold.

Sure, it may cost the producer $2 to physically make the car, but what's the going model making rate? I have a feeling it'd take more than a few hours, and time like that isn't cheap, even if it is your own.

I know that it'd take a lot of cars to make my hourly rate worth it, and I'm just a lowly web developer...

The time is free.  Really it is.  We are not talking about a business with a payroll and rent and all the other overhead.  We are talking about someone knocking these things out in his free time.  Actually the mold making time is very small.  Making the master is more time consuming because any flaws in the master would be replicated over and over and over again.  So the real work is in the master. 

[nscalesteve]

The time is free...

...yeah right ! 

[inkaneer]

I do not mean to be trite, but you are overlooking many costs associated with production.
1) A Brass sheet has an non recoverable engineering cost of $310 to produce the first one (this does not account for the design time either). If you make 25 units, thats $12.40 in additional unit cost regardless of how many units fit on a sheet. At 100 units, the additional costs drop to $3.10, etc. So run size does matter here.

2) Decals. There is a mins involved. Again, divide the costs by 25 and then 100.

3) Molds. This little Ore Jenny requires a three piece mold due to large undercuts and extended body parts. It takes three sessions of clay/declay/pour rubber processes per mold. That's roughly three days. Is this time free? Oh, and about 1 pound of rubber for the multi-part mold. Quotes I got for professional molds were $65, and up, per mold.

4) Casting. Do to the nature of the hopper, the resin must be de-gassed so you can use use the 50lbs of air pressure you will need force the resin into all the mold cavities. So you have elctricity and time to degass. After you pour the resin, it goes into a pressure vessel where 50lbs of air pressure removes all of the remaining air bubbles and eliminates voids while the resin cures. This process requires constant air pressure over 2.5 hours. So you have electricity costs for the compressor cycling.

5) Packaging. The ore Jenny may be slightly different, but imagine getting 10 Micro-Trains delivered to you in a postal box with yesterdays newspaper. That image is not a professional one, or at least one I want to be associated with me. Ten packs would be an idea though.

6) Shipping. Each item and sub-component listed here must be shipped to you. This is the overhead of the company and a portion must be included in the item cost.

7) Overhead. Salaries, benefits, electricity, air conditioning, computers, equipment, supplies. All of these add into the cost of the item. Forgive my bluntness, your cost calculation would put you of of business rather quickly.

1. Why brass?  Make the master out of styrene.  As for the etched parts they are available from BLMA and GMM.

2. decals.  I had  decals made with individual car numbers.  Got 52  of them on a page 8.5 X11. for a total of $114.  If I ordered a second page it would have been another $14.  About $1.00 per car.  Less if more than 150 are ordered.

3. Molds.  Car could be done with three molds.  one for the hopper, another for the frame and another for the four bumbers.  Buyer assembles the parts.

4. Casting. Wow how much electricity is needed to run a compresser???  Besides people who have done casting tell me that if done right all this  "degassing" may not be necessary.

5.Packaging.  Who cares about packaging?  As long as the cars arrive unbroken the packaging will be in a plastic bag on the curb within a week. 

6. Shipping.  Customer pays shipping on final product .  All parts are made in house so no shipping of parts is necessary.  Obtaining materials such as RTV molding compound and Resin can usuually be gotten locally.

7.Overhead.  You got to be kidding! You're in your basement; you already have paid for the house the A/C ,the heat ,electricity, sewage and everthing else.  Your resin casting enterprise is only adding gravy to the meat and potatoes.  What salaries?  You make this out to be some large scale operation but resin casting does not require all the 'necessities' of a manufacturing business.  That is why so many people are doing it in their homes.

[John]

Inky .. with all due respect, maybe you need to make these gons ..