Author Topic: Things that make you go hmmmm...  (Read 3445 times)

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wm3798

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Things that make you go hmmmm...
« on: April 27, 2007, 08:35:17 PM »
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While visiting my local Hobby Town, (which recently changed hands and now actually stocks some N scale!) I stumbled across another new Bachmann N scale locomotive.



It's a B-23/30-7.  The picture above is from their website, which is the usual HO illustration, but the 2007 print catalog shows the model I saw, with the same odd knuckle coupler, and apparently the same drive as the H-16-44.

I looked at it twice to make sure I wasn't looking at their old CrapMaster U36-B, which has the fat handrails, lousy ride height, and Blomberg trucks..  It wasn't.

It appears that Bachmann is making a serious attempt to be the proverbial "Blue Box" provider of engines that don't set the world on fire, but they don't completely suck, either.

I just find it extremely odd that the B-23 and the H-16 have an MSRP of $55 each, yet they are superior in almost every way to the Spectrum F units in terms of detail and drive quality, and the Spectrum Dash8 and SD-45, which have rapido couplers yet they retail for $135.

One day I'll understand Bachmann's marketing philosophy.  One day... ::)

So, Ed, Daniel, Sean... Who's going to be the first to roster a Conrail B-23-7 by Bachmann?  I'm real happy with my H-16... It might be worth a shot...

Maybe John will add some CSX and Chessie paint outs to his roster...

Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

3rdrail

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Re: Things that make you go hmmmm...
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2007, 08:54:22 PM »
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The part I can't figure out is why Bachmann made this model when Atlas has run the same prototypes several times already. I know, it's a much lower price point, but the "gotta have a B23-7 or B30-7" crowd is already satiated. Perhaps Bachmann sees it as a good train set engine (it would be that).

So much for the "don't duplicate the competition" syndrome.  :-\

Denver Road Doug

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Re: Things that make you go hmmmm...
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2007, 10:05:20 PM »
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Hopefully Atlas will extract revenge and produce a Dash 8-40C/W.  8)

I agree that it's kinda odd how different the MSRP's are on the miserable failures that were the Dash8's and SD45's.  Even if Bachmann would've stuck to their original MSRP of $90 I'd probably have bought at least one of the warbonnet 8's.  Maybe we should introduce them to this slick little invention called a calculator...they could run some numbers, figure out what their lackofprofit margin is, turn the display upside down and spell "boobies"....whatever.

But hey, these new little gems their turning out seem to be back to their niche and I applaud them.  They will be great for beginners or starting points for bashing or what have you.  I wish them well.
NOTE: I'm no longer active on this forum.   If you need to contact me, use the e-mail address (or visit the website link) attached to this username.  Thanks.

wm3798

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Re: Things that make you go hmmmm...
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2007, 10:44:50 AM »
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I was also thumbing through their 2007 catalog, and they are now offering DCC train sets.  This is nothing short of revolutionary.  So far they are only in HO and On30, but I predict the H-16 and B-23 with their easy conversion design will soon be showing up in an N scale DCC trainset.

While the controller is the most basic and unflexible one out there, it's also the cheapest, and it will be enough to expose even the most neophyte modeler to DCC.

Now they just have to retire the old train set crapmaster designs FOR GOOD, and they can start building a new reputation.

Lee
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Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

Catt

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Re: Things that make you go hmmmm...
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2007, 11:26:07 AM »
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I find it rather funny that so many people will bitch when Bachmann does a loco that ATLAS has already done but nobody complains if just the opposite happens contrary to what ATLAS says.

ATLAS says they won't do a loco that another manufacturer is doing or has done.Well what would you call the GP40,Dash8,and the B23.Bachmann has had a N & HO scale GP40 since the mid 70s(bought mine in 78) The Dash 8 has been around for what 10-15 years now.My Bachmann HO scale B-23 has been on my roster fior so long I don;'t remember when I got it.

By the way that wonderful split frame mechanizm that we all like so well is from Bachmann not ATLAS or KATO.Granted ATLAS had the foresite to machine it for flywheels. ;D By the way if you doubt the above statement ask Paul Graf about it.
Johnathan (Catt) Edwards
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wm3798

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Re: Things that make you go hmmmm...
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2007, 12:24:44 PM »
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Thomas Edison didn't invent the lightbulb, he merely came up with improvements that made it affordable, durable and marketable.  As such, he gets the credit. 
If I remember correctly, Bachmann did in fact introduce a split frame first, unless you count the Kato/ConCor PA, which was a similar concept, only the split was horizontal, not vertical.  Atlas/Kato merely improved the design.  If you remember, the original RS-3 did not have flywheels either.  That didn't come until the GP30/35 mech was introduced a few years later.

Regarding the GP40, I owned several of the Bachmann version, including the earlier one with the solid frame and wired pick-ups.  I would hardly put that one in the league with Atlas, particularly in terms of detail and drive quality.  Even now, 30 years later, the Bachmann GP-40 is a warmed over crap master.

Lee

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Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

Catt

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Re: Things that make you go hmmmm...
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2007, 02:44:21 PM »
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Quote
Regarding the GP40, I owned several of the Bachmann version, including the earlier one with the solid frame and wired pick-ups.  I would hardly put that one in the league with Atlas, particularly in terms of detail and drive quality.  Even now, 30 years later, the Bachmann GP-40 is a warmed over crap master.

Never the less it still goes to show you just how much smoke ATLAS is blowing about their policy of not doing a loco that another company is doing wether currently or not.

The main reason I brought this up is their refusal to do the Dash 8 in N scale because Bachmann allready does it.Bachmann also does the Dash 8 in HO ,but that didn't stop ATLAS from doing thier HO version.

I mean,don't you think they should get their stories straight (and make the darn 8-40C(W) in N. ;D
Johnathan (Catt) Edwards
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Grande Valley Railway
100% Michigan made

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Things that make you go hmmmm...
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2007, 04:03:54 PM »
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I want to see pics of the N scale one before passing final judgement, but to me, Bachmann's stuff often just looks "funny" compared with Atlas & Kato stuff. It's tough to say exactly how or why they look weird, but they do (to me at least).

I think that FM looked fine, because the way they're "supposed" to look hasn't been so ingrained in my mind's eye,  but all their EMD stuff just looks  "off" to me, same thing with the GE stuff.

Things like cab window proportions, door styles (the Dash 8s have weird doors, where the door outlines are engraved in the shells, as opposed to the way Atlas does it), fans and grills, just never quite look right to me.

I'd love to be proven wrong though.

bobcat

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Re: Things that make you go hmmmm...
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2007, 09:02:12 PM »
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I was also thumbing through their 2007 catalog, and they are now offering DCC train sets.  This is nothing short of revolutionary.  So far they are only in HO and On30, but I predict the H-16 and B-23 with their easy conversion design will soon be showing up in an N scale DCC trainset.

While the controller is the most basic and unflexible one out there, it's also the cheapest, and it will be enough to expose even the most neophyte modeler to DCC.

Now they just have to retire the old train set crapmaster designs FOR GOOD, and they can start building a new reputation.

Lee

The Acela set that Bachmann did comes DCC equipped and with the Bachmann DCC system. Nice set over all.

wm3798

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Re: Things that make you go hmmmm...
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2007, 12:10:23 AM »
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Ed,
The Hobby Town in Easton has them in stock, but I only saw CSX and Chessie/C&O.  Next time I'm up I'll dig a little deeper and see there's not a blue one.

I don't have any file photos of my own of any B-23's, but I'm sure I could look them up quickly enough. 

Just a few observations of what I did see...

The proportions overall looked "okay".  It has a longish fuel tank, correct looking trucks, and the hand rails are very finely done, with bends where bends are supposed to be.

It did seem a bit "burly", but as I recall, GE's were always a little chunkier than EMD's.  The cab roof and windows looked fine, but the hood width might be a tad wide.

If you want to know for sure, send a couple of portraits of Andrew Jackson and I'll pick one up for you...

Lee
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Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

Mark5

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Re: Things that make you go hmmmm...
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2007, 10:29:16 AM »
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These were announced the same day as the H16-44 (late).

For my money, why bother with something Atlas already makes?

The H16-44 was a different story for me, as Atlas in their infinate (lack of) wisdom skipped the Phase III H16-44.



Robbman

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Re: Things that make you go hmmmm...
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2007, 02:50:25 PM »
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Message deleted
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 02:06:06 AM by Robbman »

Nato

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Re: Things that make you go hmmmm...
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2007, 01:49:43 PM »
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  The real Origanal (Krap Master) Bachmann GP-40 was the first one offered manufactured in Hong Kong with the grosely out of proportion body deminsions and cab.I had a couple of these powered in GN Blue and UP also dummy versions. Most modelers myself included were so releaved when Bachman  decided to correct their mistake about a year later and introduced the still current "Crap Master" GP-40 with atleast a more correctly sized body and cab. The drive train for the orignal 1st loco was the same as their F-9 and a company (the name escapes me) manufactured Brass(really a compromise) locos GP-40 & F-9 locomotives, fairly nice Brass Body Shells on the Krap Master Drive Train. These were around for many years if I recall my early N Gauge (scale) history.                                                                             Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.

wm3798

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Re: Things that make you go hmmmm...
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2007, 04:09:42 PM »
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I stand corrected on the Bachmann split frame timing.  You're right Rob, it did come after the RS-3.

I was just out of high school at the time, and refining my beer drinking skills, so there's a lot of gaps in that area of the long term memory banks....

Lee
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Re: Things that make you go hmmmm...
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2007, 05:07:42 PM »
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I was just out of high school at the time, and refining my beer drinking skills, so there's a lot of gaps in that area of the long term memory banks....

Lee
I have the same gaps... but they occured in the early 90's  ???
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