44 Tonner

[bsoplinger]

Speaking of sideframes...

I'd be willing to scratch build a few sideframes but I've zero experience with using aluminite (sp?) to make castings. I bought a tiny starter kit and it looks like I'd need to build all 4 of these to make a master that wouldn't completely waste the resin. Does anyone with casting experience have helpful suggestions or a link to a good site on 'resin casting for dummies?'

I'd be happy to supply sideframes to those who want them if I manage to get it (the casting process) working.

[up1950s]

Now it is a powered unit with working couplers .

I redid the chassis by trashing the PC board and the small PS board to motor clips . I removed the both trucks . Then I made sure the side contact chassis strips were slightly bent up in the center before I pressed down at that point and Krazy glued them in the center only . After that dried I soldered some 70 gauge solid wire wrapping wire to the center of them . I tucked some of that wire in the depression in the chassis and loaded it with Walthers Goo to form a strain relief . While that was drying I also Goo'ed the motor on edge . After all that set up I added , by building up with styrene , a 3 point motor mount stiffener . You can see 1 white one at the rear , and 2 in the front of the motor , These were Krazy glued . Be careful you don't get any in the motor or bearings . When that all dried enough I soldered the wires to the motor . Make sure the polarity is correct . Then I tucked the slack wire where it would do no harm . The critter works just as good as new in both directions . No jerkiness at all . I headed Randys caution about retaining what I could with the original pick up setup . What I kept was the important parts . The rest was not critical to its good running qualities . Randy also cautioned us on stretching the wheelbase at the expense of coupler mount ability . I , with my unstretched chassis had just barely enough room to mount the 1017's properly set flush or so with the pilot . I had to notch the pilot a bit to get the hight right , and added some plastic to the back of the pilot to form a gluing pad for it . I have yet to design a method if securing the chassis to the shell . There is no rush , and its a snug fit as is . Lots of window cleaning up yet to do , cutting back on the side skirts ,  and handrails . Still awaiting those NP tender sideframes so I can modify them a bit to look more like the ones we want , but it is now a unit , and not just parts . Thanks Randy for those cautionary words of wisdom . They were right on the money .

[Chris333]

Well there you go Richie. Glad to see this topic finally getting some interest.    What paintjob do you have in mind?

Also notice Randy screwed the circuit board down with a #00-90 screw. This way you can still get things apart "just in case". Before that big clip held everything.

When I spliced my frame I plated it top and bottom with thin sheet brass, but I also incorporated the walkways with the floor. It was bulletproof, but now how do I add railings? So it is nice to start over with this shell.

[up1950s]

Well there you go Richie. Glad to see this topic finally getting some interest.    What paintjob do you have in mind?

I will do one for the Union Pacific # 1399 , they only had 1 unit .

The other will be for my Wyoming & La Grande , number yet to be decided .

Some manufacture ought to do these . This is proof of saleability as well as , variety , and design success . I would have thought that with it having such a long name , and being on so many roads , for so long , that there would have been a nick name assigned to them . Something like Turtle ,  Tug , Buffalo , or Hump . 

[randgust]

Roger that, Richie.... you're welcome...

As I keep tinkering with these every one is a little more evolved.  In the Shay, I could't get the pickup contacts out to adjust them and clean them.  That proved to be a mistake about six months later.  On the Climax they are 'clips' from the front edges into the center than I could pop out, that worked better.  On the A-class, I still used the Kato circuit board to hold them down, so everything pops back apart for adjustment and cleaning. 

Just yesterday the Climax ground to a halt on an Atlas switch, had to take the left front pickup contact out; it had oxidized slightly and was a little too light.  cleaned it and tightened it a hair, works fine again.  On the Shay, that would have meant unsoldering everything, which can be done, but it such a production.

I really learned the hard way on the EMC40 and the 25-ton on those contacts.

[up1950s]

This shot shows how little room there is with the unstretched chassis and the couplers . I don't think there is room to stretch the chassis at all .


This next shot shows what I decided on for end ladders . Most I had were too many steps per inch . This one had the longest gap between steps . Gloor Craft #776 Freight Car Ladder Long . They are metal . I left the top step in to make it stronger and indexed them to actually touch the pilot , unlike the prototype , also for strength , but also my pilots are tilted a touch out of whack , and this makes it look more whack . The more whack the better I guess .

[SirTainly]

Cool, nice to see another up and going so fast.

I didn't realise SP had actually rostered these, although a little early for me, but I did notice they still had a 70 tonner until the late 70s. I think I'll need an extra critter chassis and some styrene sheet LOL

[tom mann]

Richie, is there anyway to get that shell lower?  The sill looks really thick, is it possible to carve out the inside?  If not, I may remove the sill and lower the body through the sill, like I did with the Athearn (ex MDC) 50' gons.

I agree with Randy - making the fuel tank smaller will go a long way in looks.

I should get my shells today, assuming there is nothing wrong with the local post office.

[up1950s]

If you lower the shell the foot boards will drag on the rails , and you will need to enlarge the coupler hole upward even more than I did . It's a catch 22 in play here . I feel what is causing this , is that on the Kato B unit the trucks are snug closer to the chassis than how the real GE 44 ton is . Adding to that is that the frame of the real GE unit doesn't extend as wide as the side sills and looks like its less wide than the inside of the truck frames . I could be wrong , but this is what I believe it is . On the Kato , the chassis is as wide as the side sills , and therefor shows . Further , the snugness of the trucks to the chassis causes these height problems . I chose what I think will be a somewhat happy mid ground . I am looking forward to what others can do about these quandary's of the dimensional kind .

[diezmon]

Speaking of sideframes...

I'd be willing to scratch build a few sideframes but I've zero experience with using aluminite (sp?) to make castings. I bought a tiny starter kit and it looks like I'd need to build all 4 of these to make a master that wouldn't completely waste the resin. Does anyone with casting experience have helpful suggestions or a link to a good site on 'resin casting for dummies?'

I'd be happy to supply sideframes to those who want them if I manage to get it (the casting process) working.

Casting isn't as hard as you might think.  This page is pretty helpful.  http://www.alumilite.com/howto.cfm?ID=4

there's also a Casting list on Yahoo groups you could check out .

Tim

[randgust]

After doing side-by-side comparisons with the Climax B, the 28-ton Shay, and the original 44-tonner.... where the two steamers have an 0816 and a 1016 Faulhaber, with the resistor...

The performance difference between those and the original pager motor is just so stunning, I'll admit it.

I'm repowering the 44-tonner with an 0816.  He's goin in....  I'm planning on leaving the resistor though.

Now, the current 12v Kato motor isn't anywhere near as bad.  Not outstanding maybe (I've got several), but if you're wondering if you can get a Faulhaber in a 44-tonner, I'll take one for the team here.

[railspike55]

Yhoo! Finally got conformation on my shipment My shells are comming. Cant let you guys have all
the fun.

Ron N.

[tom mann]

Randy,

Why do the trucks need to be sprung for better contact?  Is it more of a weight issue? 

Chris - how did you lower the shell?

[randgust]

Any locomotive is 'supposed' to have eight points of electrical contact for eight wheels.

First, you get to deduct one for the traction tire.  That's 7.   Now, remember the four-legged stool.  There's really only three points ever touching even if you add more legs.  That applies for a normal loco truck.

Now take your track, which is rarely perfectly flat, or not warped.  Add irregularities from joints, switches, curves, and superelevation.

Now add the deliberate dead spots in insulated frogs.  In the normal switcher, you'll 'bridge' one wheel on an insulated frog.  The 5'6" truck wheelbase on the critter is so short it will get two wheels on the insulated frog, even on a #4.

Add all that stuff together... you can be down to maybe two wheels touching if you're lucky. A bit of dirt and you're dead, even with 'eight wheel pickup'.

If you really study the Kato trucks, there's a LOT of vertical slop.  You can drop a wheel in a frog and the opposite wheel doesn't lift.  The compression  on the pickup springs pushes on the ears, which pushes on the axle ends, which pushes the wheels down at all times.  As long as you keep that whole deal under compression, it forces the wheel treads down to the railhead better than any other system I've seen, and with such short truck wheelbases, is just critical.  Weight helps, of course, but that whole spring system makes it works.

As long as you have some compression on the pickup ears, they are self-cleaning on the cups, too. If they are loose, they spark, corrode, and pretty soon it doesn't work right either.  That's what I did wrong on the 25-tonner - the vertical worm 'lifted' the axle out of the cups, and under load, it arcs and corrodes, and then looses contact.

Once by accident I got Goo through the sideframes and effectively glued the pickup ears to the sideframe on the Shay.  It wouldn't run for crap, where it had always run fine before. Finally found that one of the pickup cups was glued to the inside of the sideframe... tore it apart, cleaned it out, got it to float again, and it's been fine ever since.

Also tried the four-wheel, long-wheelbase 11-104 mechanism in the trackmobile. VERY stiff suspension, pickup wipers on the back of the wheels, no equalization at all, and it was so erratic in performance I finally gave up and added a 11-105 truck to it as a dummy scale test car.  That solved the problem.  I could pile the entire deck with lead and it would still play 'three legged stool' with one leg on an insulated frog, and you're done.

I think most of your modern diesels work the same way, just get no credit, and most don't have the very short wheelbase in the trucks.

The Kato caboose and tender work the same way, just brilliant.

[Chris333]

My walkway is glued right to my Kato frame and there is no way to get it off. Worked fine until it was time to do handrails.  :-\

If you look you see cutouts on the walkways for the copper pick ups. It would require another thin layer of styrene to cover this.

I haven't messed with this new shell yet.