ESU mobile control Pro throttle on Digitrax layout with LNWI

[PanAmShay]

Does anyone here have successful experience running ESU Mobile Control Pro (MCP) throttles on a Digitrax layout connecting through LNWI, not Jmri Pi +WiFi?

We were trying to run on our clubs layout for the first time using MCP throttles and could connect to each of the two LNWI networks, but had lots of trouble staying in control of a loco. After running for a bit we would loose control (e.g. no horn or throttle response). Once this happened we would get an error on the MCP screen saying “timeout reached while trying to control (loco name)”. There were no such issues using TCS WiFi throttles or iPhones with WiThrottle. I also successfully used my MCP throttle on a club running Digitrax with JMRI Pi

This is at the Lynden train show in WA, so if you’re here on Sunday, send me a PM

I’ve talked to several groups and believe JMRI Pi will be more robust going forward and plan to make that happen, but it’s not what we have this weekend

Thanks,
Andrew

[PanAmShay]

I had similar issues trying to connect with the ESU throttle to a different club layout also running Digitrax with LNWI.  there were no issues for people running other brand wifi throttles (TCS or phone app).  I will be contacting ESU as well as trying to setup a Raspberry Pi JMRI wifi device

[Carolina Northern]

The ESU Mobile Throttle is an android tablet. The standard way to connect to anything other than an ESU device is to load Engine Driver on the Mobile Throttle. Instead of starting the ESU software, start Engine Driver and you should have no problem connecting after that. ESU devices will now receive Engine Driver protocol, so when using the ESU Command Station you can run either program.

I run both on mine and use engine driver when on other layouts or when going through JMRI. The last I checked, JMRI does not accept ESU protocol.

Hope this helps.

Don

[Sumner]

.............as well as trying to setup a Raspberry Pi JMRI wifi device......

Are you aware of Steve Todd's image file for a Raspberry Pi? 

If not or for others you need to know absolutely nothing about a Pi to have it and JMRI on it.  You buy a Pi ($50-$70)......connect a $25 USB keyboard and mouse to it.....connect an old monitor to it or buy a new one ($70 and up)..... connect a $10 power supply and buy a $12 SD card. 

Now the easy part go to Steve's site......

https://mstevetodd.com/rpi

... download his image file to the SD card and you are ready to go.  Put the SD card into the Pi and turn it on and a minute or two later JMRI is up on the screen.  Programming a Decoder......no problem.... as Decoder Pro is also there.  In my case with DCC-EX a USB cable from the Pi to the DCC-EX command station and you are up and running.  You don't need to know anything about the Pi or its operating system.  Everything is taken care of by Steve's image file on the SD card. 

Steve and Peter Akers are also the EngineDriver developers/team.

Sumner

[PanAmShay]

Sumner, I just became aware today of Steve Todd's image for Raspberry Pi JMRI--thanks for the details!

Don, our ESU throttles came with Engine Driver installed, but I was not aware in conversations previously with ESU that this is what I needed to be using for non-ESU connections--maybe I was told months ago and had forgotten.  I was under the impression you select the wifi network through the android tablet settings swipe down menu.  Using the ESU throttles on the Digitrax w/Raspberry Pi JMRI this weekend worked just fine launching the ESU app directly after connecting to the wifi network, I never launched the Engine Driver app.  Thanks for alerting me to this, I will have to dig in more.

[Carolina Northern]

You have the newer Mobile Throttle. I have the older one and all it had was the ESU app. I had to strip a lot of unnecessary stuff off it to make it run faster, then install Engine Driver. The one you have is a major improvement.

ESU has since made several changes to the firmware including adding the server function to the command station to accept signals from both WII Throttle and Engine Driver.  Being native to the command station, they now work with or without JMRI.
Just put the command station on your home network and sign in to the same network with your throttle.

I have some older friends who only work with Digitrax. They struggled to learn the Mobile Throttle or WII Throttle, so I bought an L-Net converter, hooked to my command station, installed a couple of UP-5's and now they bring their own throttles and are happy.

If you haven't yet, I recommend joining the ESU forum on their website. A lot the posts refer to things we don't have in the US and you have to take advantage of Google translate to read some. You have to own an ESU product and provide the serial number to join, but it's worth it.

Don

[PanAmShay]

Don, thanks for the heads up on the ESU forum.  I'd completely forgotten about it, but looks like I'm already a member since I registered my Cab Control system.  I'll have to explore further.

I did get a Raspberry Pi JMRI device up and running and am just awaiting a Locobuffer NG to test out with my backup Digitrax Zephyr.  If I can get my Mobile Control Pro to work through that setup, then I'll bring to our club layout.

Does anyone know any nTrak NTRAK (corrected) modular groups using ESU command stations?  If so, I'd love to learn how they have it set up.  So far I've seen groups running Digitrax or NCE in my limited research.

[peteski]

Does anyone know any nTrak modular groups using ESU command stations?  If so, I'd love to learn how they have it set up.  So far I've seen groups running Digitrax or NCE in my limited research.

Yes, most NTRAK (spelled with all caps) clubs in the Northeast area use Digitrax equipment (not my favorite by far), but it seems that Digitrax dominates that field.  I suspect that ESU DCC system is a bit too spendy for most clubs, and being foreign-made, is not very populate in the States.  But I wonder if any of the European NTRAK clubs might be using ESU DCC?

[PanAmShay]

Thanks Peteski for the NTRAK correction.  And in looking up to confirm it, I learned some good NTRAK history. https://ntrak.org/NTRAK-History and https://belmontshorerr.com/the-original-n-trak/

I definitely would be interested to hear if any European NTRAK layouts use ESU.  Maybe I'll post to the ESU Forum as suggested.

Pricing even seems somewhat similar:
Wireless command station with throttle: Digitrax EVOXD $534 vs ESU Cab Control $397
Booster: Digtrax DB210 $130 vs ESU ECOS Booster $230

I'm guessing US NTRAK equipment usage is more based on what was compelling whenever the club was created.

[peteski]

Thanks Peteski for the NTRAK correction.  And in looking up to confirm it, I learned some good NTRAK history. https://ntrak.org/NTRAK-History and https://belmontshorerr.com/the-original-n-trak/

I definitely would be interested to hear if any European NTRAK layouts use ESU.  Maybe I'll post to the ESU Forum as suggested.

Pricing even seems somewhat similar:
Wireless command station with throttle: Digitrax EVOXD $534 vs ESU Cab Control $397
Booster: Digtrax DB210 $130 vs ESU ECOS Booster $230

I'm guessing US NTRAK equipment usage is more based on what was compelling whenever the club was created.

Well yeah, most American NTRAK clubs which added DCC to their club's operating methods (which was some years ago) bought Digitrax equipment at that time. I heard that Digitrax was selling the equipment to clubs at some discount but I don't  know how true that is. I was not involved in my club's DCC purchases.  But once a brand establishes in the club, there is a good chance the club will stay with that brand whenever they upgrade the system, or buy additional  throttles or boosters. Plus at the time my club acquired DCC equipment, ESU was not easily obtainable in the U.S., and I suspect that even if it was, it was much more expensive.

If you think about it, going back 20-30 years, there were only couple of domestic DCC manufacturers:  Digitrax and NCE. They both go back to the infancy of DCC.  CVP EasyDCC was also available early on, but it is not very popular in most of the country. TCS (their complete DCC system, not just decoders) is a fairly recent development.  Lenz is a European manufacturer which actually was involved in creating the DCC standards and their DCC systems were available in the U.S. from the early DCC days but again, it was not  (nor it is now) widely established in the U.S.

Actually European-made DCC equipment prices used to be quite bit higher than the equivalent equipment (decoders command stations, etc.) made by domestic manufacturers. Seems that over the last several years the domestic DCC prices have gone up to almost be on par with European equipment. Or maybe Price of European DCC came down while the domestic equipment price went up.

It would be interesting to know what the NTRAK clubs in Europe use for DCC, but we do not have many European members here to ask.

[MK]

I heard that Digitrax was selling the equipment to clubs at some discount but I don't  know how true that is.

I've heard the same through the grapevines.  It's a great marketing strategy on their part.  New club?  Here's a one time xx% discount order to get your club going.  Everybody orders equipment.  Like you said, once they have their foot in the door and the entire club is Digitrax, it's hard to switch.

Imagine the uproar if a club president announces all their members' throttles will be obsolete next week and they will all have to buy new ($$$) throttles!   

[Sumner]

I'm aware of some clubs, mainly Australia, that are changing their layouts to DCC-EX. 

Since the command station is so inexpensive it isn't a large expense and since it seems phone throttles have gained so much in popularity that isn't as huge a problem anymore either.  It also gives them the opportunity to run parts are all of the layout on either DCC or DC at any time without any mechanically electrical switching needed.

The CSB1/8874 combination for around $200 has 4 track outputs all switchable at any time between DC and DCC.  More CSB1's can be added as boosters and also for more power districts, all with 5 amp potential.

Sumner

[PanAmShay]

We had fantastic success over the weekend train show using the following connected to the club Digitrax command station on an NTRAK layout

Raspberry Pi 4 running JMRI with image from https://mstevetodd.com/rpi
Asus RT-BE58 Go wifi router (WiFi 7 turned off and security set to WPA2, otherwise the ESU throttles wouldn't connect with higher security settings)
Locobuffer NG to plug into Loconet and RJ12 connector cut off and new one installed at much shorter length
Anker A2154 USB-c charger for a single power source for Pi, Router, and small cabinet fan in case the lid is closed.
RJ12 6 conductor female to female bulkhead connector so any cable can be plugged into the front of the box

TCS UWT50 and iPhones w/WiThrottle worked great as well.

[keeper]

It would be interesting to know what the NTRAK clubs in Europe use for DCC, but we do not have many European members here to ask.

Well, this is a bit off-topic....
I'm not a member of any club here in Germany so I can't answer what's used most.
But regarding the equipment prices - especially decoder prices - there is a significant change lately.
Some years ago Digitrax decoder were way cheaper than now. A drop-in decoder for eg. a Kato SD40-2 was about 28 to 30 €.
Now it is nearly 50 € whereas the ESU drop-in for the same loco is down to 28 to 30 €.
This is all non-sound.