Author Topic: 80s TOFC+COFC Questions  (Read 914 times)

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jagged ben

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Re: 80s TOFC+COFC Questions
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2026, 11:08:16 PM »
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What about Santa Fe/Impack 5 unit and 10 unit Spine cars?... and the Santa Fe single spine cars.. (like a front runner with normal trucks)

I think I see one of the single cars on the first train in this 1985 video.

I think I see two of those single spine cars, one about 3 cars in front of the pushers and one directly in front of the pushers.  They seem to be those ATSF cars and not front runners if I'm counting the axles correctly.

The ATSF had the 10-packs.  I have not believed those left ATSF routes but I'm willing to be proven wrong.    The Impack 5 unit versions that Trailer Train got (UTTX) came along in 1983.  I'd be surprised if those didn't make it onto Conrail.  Those were built in 1983.

Of course neither of these prototypes have mass produced models in N scale.   

Ike the BN Freak

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Re: 80s TOFC+COFC Questions
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2026, 03:11:33 AM »
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Con-Cor did the Fuel Foiler, but those only came in 4 unit sets. I've thought about buying a couple of sets to make into 5 packs, but deep down I hope someone does impacks. Alan Curtis did Impacks years ago, got one on the second hand market, but otherwise its basically kitbashing the fuel foilers

KSTXFLID

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Re: 80s TOFC+COFC Questions
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2026, 10:15:20 AM »
+1
Would love to see someone do ATSF Fuel Foilers.
Con Cor versions are hard to find and not optimal anyway.

Love this topic. TOFC/COFC in the '80's is of particular interest for me.

Thank you all for the input.

jagged ben

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Re: 80s TOFC+COFC Questions
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2026, 03:16:56 PM »
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When I get a little further along on my 3d printed 10-pack maybe I'll post a build thread.   

Usili

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Re: 80s TOFC+COFC Questions
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2026, 09:52:13 PM »
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Awesome, even this focus helps a bit - 10 minutes on railpictures (searching in MA) paints a pretty good picture and some interesting trends. I am wandering out of my geographic comfort zone and era a bit, so you locals will have to fill in some gaps....

It's my understanding that Boston had lift equipment at the terminal by then, so you aren't reliant on circus style loading/unloading (which influences which flat cars you'd see).

1982 - typical TOFC (shippers don't ring any bells for me) but a mix of 45/40 trailers already and those screw hitches on the empty flats (un-modified 45/40 89'ers) weren't going to be used in COFC service anytime soon. 
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/723850/

1984 - a good spread of photos here
July - TOFC flats only
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/621102/
September - there's your piggypacker in the background. Lots of 45'ers evident including Milwaukee, BN and maybe a Chessie down the back near the lift. More TOFC in the yard tracks. Looks like the front flat is your BLMA/Atlas F89J.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/614725/
September - Ok, we can see a loaded COFC flat left of the engines and a bunch of TOFC (at least some Transamerica are easy to make out). The TOFC train on the extreme right is clearly containers on chassis, with the last two being APL.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/614724/
October - more TOFC
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/679118/
November - more TOFC, with Transamerica up front and another Milwaukee a couple of trailers back.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/679117/
November - more TOFC (not seeing a lot of gaps between trailers that you'd expect from the 45/40 combos). Flats are predominantly flush deck with hitches facing the same direction.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/636251/

1985 - great October shot here: XTRA Lease 45', Transamerica 45', Unknown 40', Southern 40', UPS 40' drop frame on 89' flats (probably a flush deck and then a channel side).
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/282626/

And then just to look at trends and shippers for a moment past 1985

1986 April - another Milwaukee trailer upfront suggests this was fairly common
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/619633/

1986 July - APL, Xtra and Transamerica 40' containers on chassis, and based on the bright orange cushioned hitch, probably a front runner behind the train.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/817794/

1986 August - an Availco / Preferred 45 trailer door visible
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/645528/

1986 September - Transamerica upfront
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/640692/

1986 September - Santa Fe x3, Transamerica x2, Southern and more chassis mounted APL containers. Un-modified 45/40 89' flush deck flats in front.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/656165/

1986 September - more Santa Fe
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/613132/

1986 September - looks to be a couple of Trailvans back there
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/613131/

1986 November - more Transamerica
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/672826/

1987 - lots of Santa Fe, Trailvans and all those red framed doors are UPS trailers
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/358128/

1989 July - getting beyond your era but interesting for the discussion - we see our first Gunderson Twinstack double stack with NYK and Genstar 40' containers.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/726522/

It's a small sample with some interesting trends (wouldn't have guessed the MLWZ's were so common), but feel free to send through any other photos you've got that you'd like another set of eyes on - this sort of research is fun.
Yeah, from what I had seen with the ZTS for the Boston Line, Boston didn't seem to really have any circus loading of stuff.

And I was pretty much using railpictures for the kind of photography, so at least for right now, I don't necessarily have the kind of photos there.

Genuine thanks for the breakdown there.

Rivet Miscounter

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Re: 80s TOFC+COFC Questions
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2026, 12:00:36 AM »
+2
Love this topic.    Wind James up and watch him go!!!   :trollface: :D :drool:   Seriously though, anytime we can get Mr. Costello talking about intermodal it's gonna be a great day.  He helped me immensely to work through building out my BN roster.

I don't have much to offer about Conrail trains but I sure would love to have one or two of those ATSF single spines.   I have the handful of Front Runners I need for my late 80's BN 91/92 Trains.  The NTTX spines were likely Conrail visitors too but not until 1987.  I would like to have a set of those but I'm not sure I have the cojones to order from N-Scale Kits yet.   (plus most of my money is going toward Z Dash 9's at the moment)
Doug

Usili

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Re: 80s TOFC+COFC Questions
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2026, 05:10:16 PM »
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So, in terms of N-scale equipment offered that'd fit for the dual 45' trailers would be the BLMA/Atlas F89Js and the Athearn F89F RTTXs, right?

btrain

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Re: 80s TOFC+COFC Questions
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2026, 09:42:21 PM »
+2
For research, you may find this YouTube channel useful. While I’m building a container and trailer train of my own based around the late 70s and early 80s, it does give a good impression of these trains.

Brian Smith
Ohio Free-moN

James Costello

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Re: 80s TOFC+COFC Questions
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2026, 02:54:47 AM »
+2
So, in terms of N-scale equipment offered that'd fit for the dual 45' trailers would be the BLMA/Atlas F89Js and the Athearn F89F RTTXs, right?

In theory yes, but there's a couple of caveats though, depending on how accurate you want to be.

For me and for 1985, the most important thing is the TT logo - you don't want the TTX speed logo (1991), you want the older TT style with some brown flats amongst the yellow.

This limits your options for what BLMA/Atlas and Athearn have done so far. Even their announcements for future runs of those cars, for true Twin 45 flats, are only shown with the TTX logo.

Trailer Train's conversions to Twin 45s in the early 80s went STTX (with sliding bridge plates - TOFC only), then WTTX (portable bridge plates - TOFC only) and then TTWX (portable bridge plates, but all-purpose for TOFC/COFC) and then ultimately RTTXs for Twin 45 / Triple 28 service started in the 1985-87 period. In the early 1980s, the RTTX mark was still being used for open, tri-level autoracks and TTAX wasn't yet spine cars.

I don't have time for the full table, but V1 of "The TTX Story" has a table that compares the flat car fleet in 1973, 1983 and 2000, and here's the spread in 1983:

TTX - Two hitch TOFC (ie, 45' + 40') - 8,739 flush deck + 19,445 other (ie, standard level, raised sill) = 18,124
TTAX - TOFC/COFC all purpose (AP) - 13,665 flush deck + 0 other = 13,665
Others - presumably low deck TOFC flats = 4,369 total
WTTX - Twin 45 TOFC - 0 flush deck + 953 other = 953 total
TTWX - Twin 45 TOFC/COFC AP - 812 flush deck + 0 other = 812 total
STTX - Twin 45 TOFC - 366 flush + 384 other = 750 total
TTCX - COFC Only - 681 flush + 0 other = 681 total
XTTX - 4 hitch TOFC - 120 flush + 332 other = 452 total
KTTX (Twin 45), RTTX (Twin 45 / Triple 28) = 0

So on numbers alone for 1983, 95% of your Trailer Train fleet would be either TTX or TTAX reporting marks, with TT logos and two trailer hitches (45' + 40' slots), in the following car styles:
  • ACF Flush Deck - MTL
  • ACF Flush Deck - Atlas
  • ACF F89J (raised sill) - BLMA / Atlas
  • BSC F89F (raised sill) - Athearn

I'd still expect a mix of older brown TT flats amongst the yellow TT flats as well. The newer Twin 45 conversions came from former auto-racks, so they'd newly painted TT yellow.

For some variety, but the flush deck ACF flats could be used in COFC service as well - both Atlas and MTL have had this offering.

Currently, no one makes the 3rd most populous option - a low level TOFC flat developed for clearance under catenary (ie, LTTX flats). 

For mind, the best way to achieve the Twin 45 variety for your 85 period would be any of the available options, changing the hitches to suit and re-decalling the reporting mark to suit STTX/WTTX/TTWX with the Microscale options. I'd have a single XTTX flat to round it out - but Athearn didn't do the four hitch variety properly (it's a standard TTX deck) and I'd have it as one of the TT brown cars.
 
James Costello
Espee into the 90's

jagged ben

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Re: 80s TOFC+COFC Questions
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2026, 04:41:05 PM »
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Following up on my promise regarding the APL LinerTrain...

Here is a photo of the LinerTrain at Horseshoe curve in '81.  My guess is the Trailer Train TOFC with APL boxes up front followed by the COFC APLX cars is very typical of the kind of mixed in equipment you'd have gotten. 
Also here is another photo of the LinerTrain cars at ATSF's terminal in LA.

For research, you may find this YouTube channel useful. While I’m building a container and trailer train of my own based around the late 70s and early 80s, it does give a good impression of these trains.

Nice.  Note the Western Pacific flats around 5 mins.  Micro-Trains did one like one of those.

Quote
Just stumbled upon this cool shot of a 40ft APL can on chassis being loaded on one of the short-lived 89ft APL Linertrain flats:
<http://www.apl.com/history/art/innovate/rail/piggy.jpg>

James, you didn't save this photo, did you?

Quote
Photos are scarce, but Jim Eager bought this un-credited slide from Ebay apparently taken in Pueblo CO or someplace equally unexpected
Thank for sharing that.  But it still doesn't tell me what to do with the extra details that come with the Atlas cars.   :lol:





samusi01

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Re: 80s TOFC+COFC Questions
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2026, 05:14:52 PM »
+1
James, you didn't save this photo, did you?



You might as well stay with the Kansas Memory link; photos were taken more or less at the same time. But the KS memory one is larger and in color.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2026, 05:16:24 PM by samusi01 »

jagged ben

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Re: 80s TOFC+COFC Questions
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2026, 05:22:40 PM »
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You might as well stay with the Kansas Memory link; photos were taken more or less at the same time. But the KS memory one is larger and in color.

Haha thanks.  Yeah that's the same number container on the same crane, paused mid lift for the publicity shots.  (So Jim's UP guess turned out to be incorrect.)

jagged ben

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Re: 80s TOFC+COFC Questions
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2026, 05:25:34 PM »
+1
Also one more thing I thought should be added to this thread is this reference for TTX reporting marks:
http://www.nakina.net/other/report/reportttx.html