Kato F3 stalling

[carmelmodelrr]

My Kato F3, one of the original DC F3's used to pull the California Zephyr, has been reliable over these many years--until now.  Now, after running for about 30 minutes, it begins hesitating, then eventually comes to a stop even though its headlight is on.  If you nudge it it runs hesitatingly.  I've cleaned the wheels and even lubed the gear in the trucks but nothing changes.  Any ideas?

Thank you in advance.

carmelmodelrr

[peteski]

The clue is: headlights are staying on.  That means that the most likely culprit is the motor. Especially since this loco appears to have high mileage.

Brushes and commutator can wear out in well-used motors. Unfortunately in this motor you can't easily look at the commutator. In my experience when brushes wear out the commutator can also be worn down. While brushes can be replaced, you can't replace the commutator. I would say that a new motor will likely be a fix for this loco.

[wm3798]

I concur with @peteski .

It may be worth the effort to change out the brushes, and see what you get.
But it will be about the same or less effort to find a new motor and swap it in.

If individual parts are hard to come by, see if you can find the same drive with less wear and tear.  Keep in mind that most model trains get bought and collected in hopes of building a layout "one day".  Lots of new old stock with very little run time out there.  Train shows and after market sites like Ebay and FB Marketplace would be a good place to start.

Lee

[carmelmodelrr]

Thank you for your replies.

Kato sells a replacement motor that is "DCC Friendly".  Would that work in this non-DCC locomotive?

Carmelmodelrr

[wm3798]

I'm not familiar with their newer drives.  It's probably the way the brush caps are mounted that make them easier to isolate.  The key is if the motor itself is the same dimensions as the old one.  Perhaps one of our DCC adherents could chime in...

Lee

[rodsup9000]

Thank you for your replies.

Kato sells a replacement motor that is "DCC Friendly".  Would that work in this non-DCC locomotive?

Carmelmodelrr

No it will not. Best to try to find a later release chassis that's DCC Friendly. Your shell will fit the newer chassis.

[chessie system fan]

If the (WP, right?) units were bought at the same time as the Cal Zephyr, then it is a DCC-ready unit.  If you take the shell off, you'll easily be able to tell. A split frame = non-DCC. A single frame = DCC-ready.

[Trnsrus]

No it will not. Best to try to find a later release chassis that's DCC Friendly. Your shell will fit the newer chassis.

IIRC, the body shells are interchangeable but the side window glass castings are not. You must install the new window castings into the old shell; the old window castings will not engage the retaining tabs on the new chassis. The new window castings should fit the old shell perfectly.

I have not made this swap myself but read of it in one of the forums and felt the post was reliable.

Barry

[mmagliaro]

My Kato F3, one of the original DC F3's used to pull the California Zephyr, has been reliable over these many years--until now.  Now, after running for about 30 minutes, it begins hesitating, then eventually comes to a stop even though its headlight is on.  If you nudge it it runs hesitatingly.  I've cleaned the wheels and even lubed the gear in the trucks but nothing changes.  Any ideas?

Thank you in advance.

carmelmodelrr

When you say "original DC F3's", do you mean the very first-run F3's from the late 1980s?
I agree with the others that the motor is probably chiming midnight.  It could just be a commutator with slots that are finally
loaded up with enough carbon to start causing this, and it could be cleaned out if you are willing to disassembly the motor and pull out
the armature.  But if not, yep a motor replacement is your best bet.  Can you post a photo of the motor?  I'll see what I've got lying around here (I have a lot of Kato and Atlas motors).

[Bendtracker1]

IIRC, the body shells are interchangeable but the side window glass castings are not. You must install the new window castings into the old shell; the old window castings will not engage the retaining tabs on the new chassis. The new window castings should fit the old shell perfectly.

I have not made this swap myself but read of it in one of the forums and felt the post was reliable.

Barry

That is correct.

[randgust]

I had custom painted four of the original Kato F7's, but the chassis were becoming noisy and unreliable.   I successfully changed the shells over to the newer DCC chassis, which were much, much quieter and had no pickup issues.   The original ones relied on contact between the truck frames and the split frames, the new ones have long pickup ears that extend through the frame.   One of the odd things about the old units was that they would 'screech' going through an 11" curve, wheel slip that I attributed to flat tread profile.

So bottom line was the upgrade was really worth it.   Rather than fighting trying to find parts.

Did have to swap over the window inserts, but that was all.

I then swapped everything around with the body shells and sold the original chassis units for parts units with new shells on, with full disclosure, so the project wasn't even all that expensive.

[carmelmodelrr]

Max,
I think my F3 IS one of the late 80's or very early 90's locos.  I'm unable to post pictures (computer illiterate), but I have ordered a replacement complete loco from ebay.

I appreciate your and ALL the responses.

carmelmodelrr

[robert3985]

My Kato F3, one of the original DC F3's used to pull the California Zephyr, has been reliable over these many years--until now.  Now, after running for about 30 minutes, it begins hesitating, then eventually comes to a stop even though its headlight is on.  If you nudge it it runs hesitatingly.  I've cleaned the wheels and even lubed the gear in the trucks but nothing changes.  Any ideas?

Thank you in advance.

carmelmodelrr

Another question that may cast a different light on your problem.  Is the motor running when the locomotive hesitates and then stops??...or does the motor come to a stop?

If the motor continues to run while the engine has stopped, this indicates it's a gear problem.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[peteski]

Another question that may cast a different light on your problem.  Is the motor running when the locomotive hesitates and then stops??...or does the motor come to a stop?

If the motor continues to run while the engine has stopped, this indicates it's a gear problem.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

True, but in that scenario the most likely culprit would be cracked/slipping universal coupling(s) on the motor or worm shafts.

[robert3985]

True, but in that scenario the most likely culprit would be cracked/slipping universal coupling(s) on the motor or worm shafts.

Exactly.  I should have said "gear train" problem, which I consider slipping/cracked universals to be part of, even though they're not gears.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore