Would there be a market for????

[Sumner]

Would their be a market for something between ESU's LokPilot (motor control & Lights) decoders at $30 and their full sound decoders at $90-$100.  Maybe a sound decoder with a couple choices of bell and horn and prime mover sound and none of the other 20+ sounds on their present sound decoders.  That is really about all I'm interested in most of the time.

Price it half way between at $60 and I'd bet they would have a winner.  What do you think?

Sumner

[peteski]

Digitrax makes sound decoders in your price range (street price), but they aren't ESU.    Those decoders have the features you looking for.

Here is one: Digitrax SDXN147PS - Series 7 Sound Decoder 8 Pin, 8 Selectable Sound Schemes Included - N Scale ($65)

[reinhardtjh]

And if you do go with the Digitrax sound decoders, then you should join John McMaster's IO Group for the AnPRR.  He's a wizard with sound projects for Digitrax decoders.  Some of his are on Digitrax's Sound Depot, but most aren't and his are much better then even the Digitrax projects.

Link to the home for AnPRR https://groups.io/g/AnPRR

[Jimbo]

Those decoders have the features you looking for.

UNLESS @Sumner also wants the motor control features and performance that ESU offers…

(Apologies to Digitrax)

Jim

[peteski]

UNLESS @Sumner also wants the motor control features and performance that ESU offers…

(Apologies to Digitrax)

Jim

I thought my earlier statement "Digitrax makes sound decoders in your price range (street price), but they aren't ESU." Implied that. 

I doubt ESU would ever come out with a basic decoder again. They tried that few years back and it was not very successful.  Their market is the higher end decoders users.

I'm not well versed on Digitrax, but I  wonder if mating  a tiny ESU LokPilot with Digitrax's soundbug would fulfill Sumner's goal. But of course that means 2 boards and in N scale the available space is limited.

[Sumner]

Thanks for the replies. I didn't do a good job of asking the question.

I'm wondering if ESU offered a less expensive decoder with fewer sound options would you buy it?

I wouldn't want to give up what else ESU has to offer in motor control and lighting options but if they offered a sound decoder with maybe 6 horn, bell, prime mover sounds only for $60-$70 I'd probably buy some for engines I have that I won't put a $100 sound decoder in.

Sumner

[PanAmShay]

There are definitely locos I don't purchase as I know it entails another $100 for decoder.  It would be great if they were $60-80.  However, I doubt removing the 20+ other sound features would dramatically lower the cost.  I assume those sort of "come for free", at least in terms of BOM cost for any PCBa, unless it would let you drop down to smaller memory.  Those sound features do incur programming and recording costs, but likely shared across other scales and not on a per unit basis.  I think it is really important to keep the main prime mover, brake, bell, horn sounds high quality

In our recent journey in n-scale, early on I tried a BLI Mikado with Paragon 4 sound.   I found the sound to be monotonous, unchanging and grating.  There were no changes to the noises other than just basic speed (RPM) as it ran around, unlike like on my Zimo equipped Shay which has a few different natural undulations to the steam noises built into the sound programming.  So I see the value of a good sound decoder and good motor control. 

I had bought the BLI Mike assuming that I could easily install Loksound, but learned I had to buy a Stealth version for that, another lesson learned as a newbie to the hobby--there are too many different decoder interface versions!

One of the challenges I assume is all the different SKUs in n-scale. Maybe if they could get down to just 1 or 2 then the volumes would go up.  Or maybe the universal drop in Nano E24 style with a connector like many newer locos use could allow a lower price point in the future if volumes go up as they shift to that.  The more custom versions could stay where they are price wise.  But connectors are expensive on a PCBa so maybe this doesn't help a lot.  The E24 (and Next 18) connectors are also bulky and there are no true hardwire versions on the boards with a connector (daughter board required).  Thus you see these custom OEM-only Loksound boards for smaller locos like the Atlas S2 and upcoming Kato Crocodile Sound version and none for a Kato NW2, using Zimo instead.

Peteski, what was the earlier ESU lower-priced sound decoder that didn't do so well?  I do agree that some I have met in the hobby are scared by perceived complexity of ESU and want to stay with something simple and known, so maybe ESU knows their corner of the hobby.  I think this perception is misguided as I find it much easier to change CVs in Lokprogrammer than with a throttle.

[dem34]

Its one of these weird things were I'm not sure there is a good middle market. If one is going for custom sound, they are probably going through a lot of effort to fit a speaker, Keep Alive, tuning the engine. And at that point they probably want the best they can get. ESU if they want something super customizable, Soundtraxx if they want something easy to program.

But maybe with the new market of DC with Speakers it can make some sense. But it would have to be in the $40-$50 price range to seem worth it.

[PanAmShay]

I also wouldn't want to give up RailComPlus.  That is a wonderful feature when running an ESU command station.  Instant recognition of a new loco with functions set as well as scale speed display.

[thomasjmdavis]

My thinking is that most of the differences between the maximum number of effects and the minimum number of effects would be in the software (or firmware), not in the hardware.  At least, that is how it is nowadays in larger digital effects systems.  Maybe ESU could save a nickel per board by using a smaller memory chip, but unless you could save terabytes, I don't think it would make any difference in the cost of the board.  The cost difference is no sound v sound, not 10 effects vs 50 effects.  And, since they need to develop the high end software anyway, it wouldn't save them anything to then create a smaller sound file from effects on the larger sound file.

[peteski]

Yes, the difference in sound capabilities are mainly in software. They also likely use a more powerful microcontroller chip, but the cost of the more powerful chip is likely negligible.

ESU tried a lower grade decoders in the 4th generation of LokSound. I believe it was LokSound V4 Select and maybe another one which was only available as OEM factroy installed in Walthers H0 models.  They were basically dumbed down LokSound4 decoders (the dumbing down was done in their firmware). No you could not "upgrade" them by just uploading them with the standard LokSound V4 firmware.

ESU did not repeat this offering in their current LokSound 5 decoders.

[Lackawannae8]

I still want to play "Oops I did it again" using F6