Unitrack Remote Turnouts and Relays

[mmagliaro]

Right, so the Stapleton boards are one-shot circuits combined with accessory light outputs.  The toggle must be NON momentary,
because the toggle position is what remembers the turnout state.  So when these power off and on, if the toggle was flipped to the right, for the diverging route (for example), and the "red" LED was on, that will all be maintained after power off/on.

But if you are going to do that, and you don't need accessory light indicators (like for a trackside signal, or controlling accessories or other turnouts that you want to activate when you throw the turnout), then you can just use a toggle switches and a single cap discharge circuit (instead of each turnout having its own one-shot board).

Heh... I had to rethink the above.  No, you couldn't just use stationary toggles and one cap discharge unit, because the toggles
would keep the cap drained all the time.  You would indeed need two capacitors on each control with a bit of circuitry so that cap "A" recharges while the toggle is in position "B" and vice versa.  Stapleton's design takes care of all this, in an elegant form factor for installation.

In answer to Peteski's question about  the relay wiring, here is an updated diagram with the actual Panasonic relay pins marked.   I think this will clarify things.

[mmagliaro]

And one more thing...  I don't know why there is so much angst about wiring for 2-wire Kato-style turnout machine vs
the 3-wire "Atlas type" machines.  In fact, if you use DPDT momentary toggles like we are discussing here, you could use this exact same control with just a small wiring addition - namely, just adding a ground wire to the center terminal on the switch machines.

[freescopesdad]

Not sure if Ken is still in business. But from the description, the 751K does exactly what I and Cory are looking for.
Ron

[mmagliaro]

Not sure if Ken is still in business. But from the description, the 751K does exactly what I and Cory are looking for.
Ron

I agree, and he has them ready-assembled at a reasonable price.  There is a contact email on his website.  You could just send him an inquiry to make sure he is still selling these.

Did either of you look at the Stilwell BCD circuit that Point353 suggested a number of posts back?   He put a link to a thread about that circuit, and in that thread there is a download link to a pdf of the BCD circuit.  You really should look at those.  A circuit to control a Kato turnout, with a toggle and bidirectional LED indication is super simple, only requires about 5 parts (including the LED and resistors.) The BCD also has the nice side effect of a quick current pulse that quickly dies out, like a capacitor discharge switch machine circuit.

[Rivet Miscounter]

One other option is the Digitrax DS64/74 which has this capability, unless I am misunderstanding a requirement.  Albeit, with momentary pushbuttons versus toggles which might be a deal breaker.   A little more expensive too, but then again you get DCC capability which may or may not matter.

[Cory Rothlisberger]

Plot twist, figured out how to do what I want with an Atlas Snap Relay. Not as pretty as Max or Ken's solutions, but I have a few of these laying around...

Side note: yes I know you need resistors before the LED, I was just too lazy to draw them in...

[freescopesdad]

Ken is indeed still in business and I am considering a test order for a portion of my layout and see how it goes.

Cory, does your drawing depict a single bi-color led? If so, where will you physically place it on the layout? And, as an example, would green indicate straight and red indicate diverging? My preference would be 2 leds (say green but any color will do) per turnout, placed between the rail of each route. Only the led on the switched route would be lit. Can the Snap Switch accommodate this? If so, it seems like a much cheaper solution than the 751K alternative. I have no experience with the Atlas switch so I don't know how it would be wired. Ron

EDIT... Those Atlas Snap Relays, even if they do work, are about $13.00 and up, so no real cost savings that I can find, especially when you add the cost of the toggles.

[Cory Rothlisberger]

Yea, I don't understand why the Snap Relay is so expensive. There's next to nothing to them and this design has been around for ever. Used to know a guy at Atlas, so I have a few laying around. That's why I was hoping to use them... 

Here's the control panel I'm working on for my layout. It's a small 4x2, just have one turnout, opposite of where I normally operate that I wanted a visual for.

[mmagliaro]

The Snap relay is so expensive because it's a "train" thing with a train product name on it, and it is in a convenient form factor (nice and big with screws).   That thing is EXACTLY a DPDT latching relay.  What you are wiring up there is pretty much exactly my relay circuit, except with the snap relay instead of a little DIP format latching relay.  Personally, the main thing I like about Ken's is that it includes the cap discharge capability, which is an extra measure of protection against somebody foolishly leaning on the toggle for 10 seconds and burning out the machine coil (although I admit, this is pretty rare).  The main thing I like about mine is the utter simplicity of parts.  Except for the toggle and LEDs (which you have to have no matter what you do), it's just a relay.  Either could be made up on a PCB that mounts up into the panel on the toggle bolt.

Well, I'm out for now.  You guys have plenty of choices.  If there is any interest in making my relay version up into PCBs all built up ready to go, or just as boards for you to populate, let me know.  I'm perfectly amenable to drawing up the boards, having them etched, and building them (or just providing boards) for people. 

[freescopesdad]

Ken's 751K also includes the toggle. If I don't hear back from him or he cannot deliver for some reason, I'll send you a PM and perhaps we can figure something out mutually amenable. Ron

[freescopesdad]

Never heard back from Ken, and took another direction. I have 5 lighted control panels mounted above my layout, each one is 17"x8" and represents an area of my layout. I also created 5 corresponding layout schematics which display on my ECoS touchscreen, and I switch the turnouts from there, using DCC Concepts ADS decoders. These decoders also have led outputs. When I switch a turnout, the green light on the overhead panel switches to that path. This gives me a view of all 42 turnouts from one location. So far so good. Ron