Frog juicers?

[Stolen Moment]

I have a question about using Frog Juicers.  Why?  I see how they're supremely convenient, but I'm a miser; if I have a Tortoise, or using a slide switch to throw points, why not use those contacts to power the frog?

I remember that Tortoises used to be (still are?) "make before break" which would cause a short, and ISTR that some turnouts (not DCC-friendly) have both points and frog all connected, which can cause a short if the gauge or timing is off, and the Tortoise contacts have limited "break" current but larger "carry" current (which really shouldn't matter?), so what's with essentially everybody using Juicers?  Or am I only noticing juicer use because I'm a miser?

Thanks!

Dennis

[bbussey]

I use Juicers for both turnouts and reverse loops because they automatically reverses the polarity when it senses the polarity is incorrect when contact is made.  Much easier than having to worry about relays.

[Sumner]

I wonder what the user/non-user ratio is.  I'd guess there are way more people that don't use them than do, but that is purely a guess.  A lot of people live with 'dead' frogs.

My turnouts or hand-laid and thrown with servos and the frog polarity....



.... is taken care of with a limit switch on the servo mount.  I have a few with slide switch operation and as you said handle the frog polarity with the slide switch.

I am using Tam Valley frog juicers on ...


https://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/UP%20Canyon%20Division/page-192.html

... crossings, very convenient  there.  You can also use Tam Valley's juicers (2) for reversing sections and will use some like that.

Sumner

[John]

I have no issues using the contacts on tortoises to switch polarity on my frogs .. I also use slide switches for the same function .. all work fine for me ..

[peteski]

Using Tortoise contacts is a perfectly viable (and very simple and robust) solution for powering the frog area.  If you are happy with them there is not need to complicate your life and spend extra money on new-fangled solid-state device.  Some modelers just like to be on the leading edge of technology, while others remain old-school.

[John]

Using Tortoise contacts is a perfectly viable (and very simple and robust) solution for powering the frog area.  If you are happy with them there is not need to complicate your life and spend extra money on new-fangled solid-state device.  Some modelers just like to be on the leading edge of technology, while others remain old-school.

And, if you rig up a linkage system, you can use one tortoise to throw both switches in a crossover, as well as power the frogs from both sets of contacts.  The spare contacts can be used to drive all kinds of extra options such as relays, signals etc .. fun stuff ..

[peteski]

And, if you rig up a linkage system, you can use one tortoise to throw both switches in a crossover, as well as power the frogs from both sets of contacts.  The spare contacts can be used to drive all kinds of extra options such as relays, signals etc .. fun stuff ..

Yup.  That is how all the turnouts are wired on my friend's (DCC) layout. Old-school

[Stolen Moment]

Thanks, guys!  Glad to get some confirmation!

Dennis

[Dwight in Toronto]

I have a question about using Frog Juicers.  Why?  I see how they're supremely convenient, but I'm a miser; if I have a Tortoise, or using a slide switch to throw points, why not use those contacts to power the frog?

I remember that Tortoises used to be (still are?) "make before break" which would cause a short, and ISTR that some turnouts (not DCC-friendly) have both points and frog all connected, which can cause a short if the gauge or timing is off, and the Tortoise contacts have limited "break" current but larger "carry" current (which really shouldn't matter?), so what's with essentially everybody using Juicers?  Or am I only noticing juicer use because I'm a miser?

Dennis

Hey man, thanks for asking this.  I’ve been wondering the very same thing for a long time. 
The various responses are enlightening. 
Thanks!

(I somehow tagged my response at the end of Dennis’s quoted post, so it was kinda lost in there. Corrected, fwiw).

[Scottl]

One advantage of the juicer is that it will flip to the appropriate polarity regardless of how the turnout is set.  This prevents a short that might shut down the DCC system and affect other trains.

[peteski]

One advantage of the juicer is that it will flip to the appropriate polarity regardless of how the turnout is set.  This prevents a short that might shut down the DCC system and affect other trains.

True, but if you get that far into the turnout there is a good chance that you will continue to the points where you will probably detail and cause a short anyway.

[dangerboy81]

If I used Tortoise switch machines, I would just use the contacts like you suggest, but I use Peco switches, and just throw them by hand, so Frog Juicers it is.

[Bill H]

I have no issues using the contacts on tortoises to switch polarity on my frogs .. I also use slide switches for the same function .. all work fine for me ..

Have to agree with John. Tortoises on powered turnouts, slide switches on non powered turnouts. The only place I use a juicer is on some hand built crossings...

If someone runs the wrong way thru a turnout, I have PSXXs doing power management.

Kind regards,
Bill