Ideal length of time for a job in an Ops session.

[learmoia]

Looking for opinions from Layouts that host operating sessions as well as operators.

I setup my first operating session with 2 jobs that each worked 2 small towns..

When planning what trains work what towns, what is a comfortable amount of time for a job to take (in real time)..

- 30ish minutes
- 1 hr
- 1.5 hrs
- 2 hrs

I setup my first operating session with 2 jobs that each worked 2 small towns.. (running at the same time).. and I was running interference with road freights.
Each job took about 45 minutes to complete with inexperienced operators not familiar with the territory.

Thoughts?

~Ian

[mu26aeh]

A layout I operate regularly on, jobs are usually upwards of 2 hours.  Of course, 25-30 minutes is getting out to your location, and another 25-30 getting back to the yard.  It's huge layout 

On my layout, I've averaged 35-45 minutes working at what I'd call a railroad pace.  Setting cars out, giving time for conductor to set brakes, couple/uncouple etc.

[thomasjmdavis]

This may be a question best taken up with folks you anticipate being your operators, and will depend on their age and health and how they proportion their time between operation and beer drinking and other obligations.  Using myself as an example, in my younger days, I would have wanted two, two-hour sessions, with a 10 minute break in between, in the morning, with a repeat after lunch.  Nowadays, if the layout is in a basement or room with a concrete floor, my ankles, knees, hip and/or back (one or more on any given day) will give out after 45 minutes, unless there is room to sit down while operating.  I might make an hour and a half on a wood floor.

[NorthWestGN]

All good info as I want to set up some simple ops sessions for a few friends and coworkers. I don’t want to overwhelm anyone, I want them to come back again!

Brent

[jpwisc]

On my layout, I try to keep the session 1.5 hours max. That seems to be the sweet spot for me and my operators. It’s a switching layout and that’s comfortable.
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[nkalanaga]

"Nowadays, if the layout is in a basement or room with a concrete floor, my ankles, knees, hip and/or back (one or more on any given day) will give out after 45 minutes, unless there is room to sit down while operating."

Off topic, but has anyone ever built a large layout, designed for operations, at a SITTING height, and had the operators in roll-around chairs?  It would seem to be ideal for older operators, and make working on the layout much easier.  Stand to work, with easy reaching to the far corners, then sit to play.

[basementcalling]

How long do YOU want to run interference and have people in the house?

Will you simulate 1 full day or use a fast clock, and if so, how long will the whole session last?

I'd also suggest heading over to Lance Mindheim's blog and search this topic, as he's done some interesting writing about operating session length. Of course his work is based on smaller industrial switching type layouts and not railroads that attempt to duplicate a significant portion of a mainline division.

[Maletrain]

Personally, I am good for up to 4 hours total.  But, many others need at least breaks much sooner than that.

I have had single jobs that took as much as 3 hours, and some of those were enjoyable, while others were frustrating.  Usually the enjoyable ones were jobs with a lot to do and few interruptions, while the frustrating ones were either jobs that were mostly spent waiting-out interruptions, or, what should have been not-so-difficult jobs that were intentionally made difficult in unprototypical manners.  I can also enjoy running a passenger train through  from staging to staging, even though it is a short job and there is not switching at all.

This is a hobby.  It is supposed to bring joy and maybe a sense of accomplishment.  If people are getting frustrated, it is an indication that something needs to be changed.  That just may be assigning people to the types of jobs they INDIVIDUALLY like to do.  There is a spectrum of attitudes that can be matched to a spectrum of jobs.  But, if NOBODY likes a particular job, the job needs to be fixed.  Sometimes the fix is to limit the number of cars involved to match siding and spur lengths.  Sometimes it requires changing trackwork.

I don't expect an op session to go perfectly.  Sometimes they do.  When it doesn't, I like to see the layout owner thinking about how to improve the experience by soliciting feedback and suggestions.

[Westcoast_Trains]

I think the there are a few factors that should also be included, such as size of layout, and how far apart are the towns to begin with.
I find jobs that take over an hour and a half can become frustrating to some (I for one enjoy a challenge but not everyone is the same). So I think 45 minutes with inexperienced operators might be 30 with experienced ones. It might be better to combine some of the smaller jobs into one assignment for a crew. A good friend of mine built a switching cassette layout and it takes the both of us a little more then an hour to operate all while bs'ing the whole time which I find to be just about prefect.

[Rossford Yard]

The last version of my then switching only layout has six different jobs working out of the main yard, each one took about 45 minutes if experienced, maybe more for first timers.  IMHO, that is fun, and if the time allows 1.5-2 hours, the operators get to run a second job.  It also works when I am just running by myself. I think most would prefer two separate jobs over 2 hours.

I tried to make each switch job at least a little bit unique, with a long multi-industry track, a switch back, multi-track big industries with separate spots, etc.  One was in a canyon of warehouses, another had loads in empties out for scrap loads, interplant moves in a steel mill, one track with multiple industry spots, different car types, including big cars on a tight curve industry, etc.

I moved several pieces to my new home this year, and the layout is bigger and has a continuous run option, but the basic ops will be the same.

[spr1955]

I run 10-12 trains per 3 hour session with up to 6-7 guys. When it's that high some double up and enjoy that. I have two towns that get switched and i had to reduce the number of cars for both of those jobs because they took too long, not so experienced operators. I cut them in 1/2 and they get the job done in about a hour which is good as these cars are going to the yard to be sorted and put on outgoing trains. Most other jobs, which vary in freight, mine, passenger jobs take 20 to 45 minutes depending on traffic flow so quick answer is 1 hour.

[seusscaboose]

i ran Op's in the basement for 2 years 6-8x per year .. running 4:1 fast clock...  running TO/TT...  we ran 23 trains across the railroad (point to point) with 300 cars in staging feeding the beast...  we required 8 people minimum and optimum was 13...  suffice it to say...  it was crowded...   

The optimum time for a operator depends on the job.

New operators need easy jobs that are short (point to point or out and back on a Class 1) ...   experienced on the layout can be longer (local job hitting all the stops).

All that being said... mistakes happen / semaphores get missed and (Squirrel !!!) signals are blown. 

Yard jobs and dispatch are there for the duration...  so 4 hours.   although there COULD be a swap of personnel as needed

i was very lucky to have a really good crew...  a well oiled machine that was very reliable and predictable.

we ran 2 man road crews and had to call in to dispatch (OS) and follow the proto-typical TT (NKP October 1953).. 

it was madness and awesomeness at the same time.

EP

[DirtyD79]

"Nowadays, if the layout is in a basement or room with a concrete floor, my ankles, knees, hip and/or back (one or more on any given day) will give out after 45 minutes, unless there is room to sit down while operating."

Off topic, but has anyone ever built a large layout, designed for operations, at a SITTING height, and had the operators in roll-around chairs?  It would seem to be ideal for older operators, and make working on the layout much easier.  Stand to work, with easy reaching to the far corners, then sit to play.

I remember hearing about how back in the day layouts were built to be operated by the owner standing or sitting at a control panel in what was called a "pit" in the middle, granted this was a time before walk-around throttles became common. Obviously, I wouldn't doubt many were built to be operated while sitting comfortably and enjoying a good cigar and some brandy maybe with some Frank Sinatra, Perry Como, or Dean Martin playing in the background like an episode of Mad Men if Don Draper was into model trains.