ScaleTrains Rivet Counter Loco

[kornellred]

From eBay, I acquired an ST Rivet Counter C40-9 locomotive from a seller who said that the unit is unused but there is no sound, so I paid very little for it. (the box states DCC and sound-equipped).  Sure enough, it is dead silent.
ScaleTrains has a less expensive model lineup which has DCC but no sound-equipped decoder.
Is there a way to determine if the unit actually has a sound-equipped decoder installed?  Perhaps ST accidentally packed  the lower-cost unit in a Rivet Counter box?
And, if a sound-equipped decoder is in fact installed, is there a list of CV's that can be checked for proper programming?

Any help would be appreciated.

[reinhardtjh]

If you have JMRI available, then putting it on a programming track and doing a read decoder should get you the manufacture and model which will tell you if it's a plain decoder or a sound version.

[peteski]

Another way would be to take the shell off and look at the decoder. There is a visual difference between ESU LokPilot and LokSound decoders.

[C855B]

Another way would be to take the shell off and look at the decoder. There is a visual difference between ESU LokPilot and LokSound decoders.

I don't know specifically about the C40-9, but taking the shells off other ST models is a non-trivial operation. Well... actually... it's the getting the shells back on that requires dexterity and magic. For one thing, if they have sand lines detail around the trucks, breakage or loss is almost assured. Certain coupler box designs are impediments to reassembly, although as most of us know, they change coupler designs with every release, or so it seems.

[Maletrain]

You don't need JMRI to read CVs.  Most command stations have a way to read CVs directly. 

What command station are you using?

[peteski]

You don't need JMRI to read CVs.  Most command stations have a way to read CVs directly. 

I wonder which CVs will reveal the specific type of the decoder?

[NDave]

ScaleTrains has a less expensive model lineup which has DCC but no sound-equipped decoder...

Are there external details that differ between the two models?

I guess I'd consider "biting the bullet" and pulling the shell off to see if there was a speaker installed. I certainly may be wrong, but I would think it more likely a speaker wire or something came loose, or the sound amplifier in the decoder is blown, before I suspected a swapped model.

[Missaberoad]

I don't know specifically about the C40-9, but taking the shells off other ST models is a non-trivial operation. Well... actually... it's the getting the shells back on that requires dexterity and magic. For one thing, if they have sand lines detail around the trucks, breakage or loss is almost assured. Certain coupler box designs are impediments to reassembly, although as most of us know, they change coupler designs with every release, or so it seems.

Good thing we don't design locomotives like it's 1997 anymore! 

[bigdawgks]

The few ST locos I've encountered were indeed a huge PITA to remove the shell from. They are not designed to be taken apart easily, so I would recommend not to unless absolutely necessary.

For most situations the easiest way to identify what type of decoder you've got in a loco is to read it in JMRI with a Sprog or Digitrax PR3/4. Alternatively, I believe that ST uses ESU decoders, so you could also try a LokProgrammer. If you don't have either of these tools I absolutely recommend getting at least a JMRI compatible programmer.

[peteski]

Presence of a speaker does not guarantee that a sound decoders is being used.  Recently manufacturers have been installing the speaker as a part of the chassis assembly process, so a speaker can be present in non-sound DCC models and even in DC models.

 If taking the shell and examining the decoder visually is not a good option then using LokProgrammer or DecoderPro/JMRI  would be the best and safest way to determine what decoder is installed.

[kornellred]

The shell came off my ST C40-9 by simply removing the couplers and gently tapping the shell steps on the edge of a table.  Removing the fuel tank was a little fiddly what with delicate protrusions interfering with the trucks a bit, but with persistence it came off with no damage.
There is a pair of red/black wires going from the top of the circuit board to the speaker which appear to be intact and I can detect no obvious breaks in any of the wires.  Using a 'programming" track in Page mode I reset the decoder by setting CV8 to the value of 8 as suggested in the ST owner's manual.  Still no sound, but the locomotive operates wee in both directions on DCC with the headlights reversing correctly.
Looks like a consultation with Scale trains is necessary or disirable.

WR

[Maletrain]

I wonder which CVs will reveal the specific type of the decoder?

Per NMRA standards, CV 8 is the decoder manufacturer's ID and CV 7 is the decoder version for that manufacturer. 

Peteski, you have an NCE Power Cab like I have, so I assume you read CVs with that in programming track mode, like I often do. 

A problem comes in if the decoder manufacturer makes a special board for a loco manufacturer and does not put a value in CV 7, so reading it shows "255".

But, that happens no matter whether you use JMRI or just the command station's CV reading capability.  So, my point was only that you don't need JMRI to try to identify the decoder with CVs.

Anyway, if you can get a reading of CV 8 and 7 you know who to ask if the CV7 reading has sound capability.  Somebody else on TRW may even be able to tell you, based on having read CVs for a loco like the one the OP has.

[Sumner]

Probably a  stupid question but what are you doing to turn the sound on?  If you have other sound decoder equipped loco's please ignore the question.

Sumner

[peteski]

Per NMRA standards, CV 8 is the decoder manufacturer's ID and CV 7 is the decoder version for that manufacturer. 

Peteski, you have an NCE Power Cab like I have, so I assume you read CVs with that in programming track mode, like I often do. 

A problem comes in if the decoder manufacturer makes a special board for a loco manufacturer and does not put a value in CV 7, so reading it shows "255".

But, that happens no matter whether you use JMRI or just the command station's CV reading capability.  So, my point was only that you don't need JMRI to try to identify the decoder with CVs.

Anyway, if you can get a reading of CV 8 and 7 you know who to ask if the CV7 reading has sound capability.  Somebody else on TRW may even be able to tell you, based on having read CVs for a loco like the one the OP has.

I don't think this is as simple as the CV7 value (but I don't know for certain).  I think LokProgrammer uses some nonstandard commands to get the detailed info about the decoder (including the amount of Flash memory the decoder has).  No idea how DecoderPro gets its info, but I also believe that it does not always get the decoder identified correctly.

As for custom-made decoders, AFAIK Scale Trains uses standard off-the-shelf ESU decoders installed on Scale Trains "light boards".

WR:
Since you have the shell off, can you unplug the decoder form the "light board" and take photo of both sides of the decoder?  I can be visually identified that way. Or just contact Scale Trains.