Con Cor MP15

[daniel_leavitt2000]

We are tying to figure out what was "New and improved" over the first run.

I'm pretty sure the second run was very small. I haven't seen many and the model was quickly dropped.

Charlie, you may be right on the shell. I remember the SD40-2/50 had a very Rocco-like mechanism with red gears. It hadn't occured to me they wouldn't also tool the shell. But a Yugo shell does make a lot of sense in construction methods. I really would like to know what parts were original tooling and what was done to finish the model. The radiator screens, for example, look much more delicate than the access doors. 

[CBQ Fan]

Isn’t Con-Cor famous for finding stashes of extra parts and cobbling together extra “limited” runs.

[spookshow]

Sorry, that thing went on eBay years ago.

-Mark

[sirenwerks]

I wonder if "All New MP15 Mechanism" simply means that it was all new for the MP15 (IE, not recycled from some other/earlier model)? I'm still having a hard time believing that there was a second production run, given how slow sales were on the first run.

-Mark

Or "new" as in NIB, never run before.  That would be Con Cor's level of marketing.

[ncbqguy]

For some reason it seems to be fashionable to bash Con-Cor and either directly, or by intimate association, Jim Conway.

I first met Jim when Con-Cor / JMC was next to Trains, Inc. hobby shop in Chicago.   I would drop in to see what%u2019s new every so often 1969-2003 there and after they moved to Bensenville.   

After I was %u201Csized%u201D out of my corporate career. I ended up working for JMC (a full-blown Model Railroad distributor similar to Walters but IMHO a far better operation).  This was after the Kato split and the move of manufacturing to Tucson.  I was there for three years and then I worked for Kato, USA for eight.

I do not think that people realize the full extent of Jim%u2019s contribution to Model Railroading much less N Scale.  Yes, he is in the Model Railroad Hall of Fame. But I believe he was a major reason why N Scale evolved from its slot car craze / trainset era into an important scale hobbyist segment.

I know Jim was largely responsible for Sekisui Kinzoku developing into the company it became.  Hiroshi Kato actually spent time living with the Conway and Edwards (Keith from Kadee/Micro-Trains) over summer school breaks while he was tasked with going to school learning how to conduct a model train business.  Jim and Mr. Kunitake, the head designer at Kato, developed the split frame design concept for the F3/F7 which was to have been a replacement for the Con-Cor Fleischmann/Roco F3 but instead Kato decided to make them a Kato USA product after developing them for Con-Cor.

The improvement in running quality in N Scale triggered upgrading HO and started a new era of the Hobby in general.

Con-Cor had a brilliant production model.   The first production offshore of a new item would include first release finished product and raw parts for perhaps a year of future releases.  With domestic painting and printing capabilities the production using them could then be tailored very closely to demand.   Reruns and new schemes could be done down to the parameters of a days paint and print as end of day everything had to be cleaned and reset the next day anyway.  After the Kato split new tooling was made in the US that was excellent.  The late boutique China production brought prototypes that nobody else dared to do at that time..Pioneer Zephyrs, Aerotrain, etc..

I am not saying Jim is not a character he is and there are stories!!  But his accomplishments far outweigh the quirks that anyone who did great things often has.  He started making HO kits on a kitchen table as a high school kid and became an industry leader and established state-of-the-art standards, many of which have not been exceeded even today.

Charlie Vlk

As for marketing, Jim Conway was far out shadowed by AHM  Bernie Paul and Life-Like Kramer Brothers!

[ncbqguy]

Sorry, the forum software insists on adding stupid extra characters no matter how I try to edit the text

Charlie Vlk

[Mark5]

I am not saying Jim is not a character he is and there are stories!!  But his accomplishments far outweigh the quirks <snip>

Absolutely! Con-Cor was a pillar in N scale for a looooooooong time (and to a much lesser extent in HO) and Jim Conway certainly deserves to be in the Model Railroad Hall of Fame.

Con-Cor brought us the Rivarossi products after Atlas dropped them (I still have a couple Y6bs) and for a long time Con-Cor was the only game in town for passenger cars (leaving aside the Lima heavyweights).

Mark

[tehachapifan]

We are tying to figure out what was "New and improved" over the first run....

I get that, but I thought it was already established that the photo of the disassembled drive was "exactly" the same as the one at Spookshow, which Mark said was from the very first run.

I just went out and dug out the jewel box for one of mine (I have two I purchased second-hand years ago, the first had a bent axle so I got the second for parts back when eBay still had reasonable prices). The box says "all new MP15 mechanism" across the top of the cover and "complete with factory mounted 'MT' couplers" across the bottom. There's an insert in the bottom of the box that says "coming in late 2004! The 1934 Pioneer Zephyr", so I'm assuming this one is from the first run based on info at Spookshow. That said, this was purchased second-hand, so I can't guarantee the inserts and box originally went with the loco, but it appears to be so as the label matches the loco scheme and road# (CSX 1141). The mechanism is exactly the same as the one in the photo with the disassembled drive and the one shown at Spookshow.

I think it's safe to say at this point that the reference to an all-new mechanism was included from the first run and had to do with this being a new switcher model that was a complete departure from the older switcher drives that went under the Con-Cor SW1200/1500/Cow.

....all this said, it dawned on me after I typed all this that it is possible that the box lid with the new mechanism terminology could have been swapped with the original by a previous owner. I doubt it but it's possible. Still, I have had this model for many years.

[tehachapifan]

Also, as I mentioned in an earlier reply, these mechanisms run like Swiss watches. So much so, I've tried to come up with something to put it under and even thought about milling the frame width down and plopping an Atlas MP15DC shell on it but I don't have a milling machine (yet). Haven't been able to find another loco with a similar wheelbase that has a wider hood.

[peteski]

I know Jim was largely responsible for Sekisui Kinzoku developing into the company it became.  Hiroshi Kato actually spent time living with the Conway and Edwards (Keith from Kadee/Micro-Trains) over summer school breaks while he was tasked with going to school learning how to conduct a model train business.  Jim and Mr. Kunitake, the head designer at Kato, developed the split frame design concept for the F3/F7 which was to have been a replacement for the Con-Cor Fleischmann/Roco F3 but instead Kato decided to make them a Kato USA product after developing them for Con-Cor.

Thanks for the history lesson Charlie. Some of this is also described nicely (even with some photos) in the Kato's 50 anniversary book.  Even though the book is in Japanese with separate English translation, it provides lots of very interesting facts about early Japanese and American N scale.

[Joetrain59]

Tehachapifan, only the shell off appearance is exactly like the pic shown on Marks site. that's why I did not show that image. I know I gave one to Max Magliaro. I wonder if he still has it, and can photo with frame halves apart?
 Joe D