Brass Pecos River 4-6-4 problems

[randgust]

Is this the right locomotive/mechanism?

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/pr464.html

If it is, it would appear that you can remove the worm from the worm gear by removing those screws and lifting it off.   That would let the mechanism roll freely.   When I was working on my Jamco 4-6-2, that was the saving grace as I could then manually roll it around through all manner of trackwork looking for binding, and literally 'feel with my fingers' when it was hitting something on the rods or drive train.

I think you probably have the solution already, but as a general debugging method for all manner of N steam, this should be out there.    I had quite a fight on my hand getting all the problems out of the locomotive I was working on, the tough part was finding out the back of the crosshead linkage was occasionally clicking the front main rod.  But I also had a jamming eccentric rod because the eccentric was off just a hair on the main driver set.   This method discovered both issues.

[mmagliaro]

What you said about the spacers prompted me to dig this up.  This is the 4-6-2, not the 4-6-4, but the mechanisms are similar.  Note the THREE spacers shown in this disassembled view.  The left-side has the 3 spacers stacked up together so they look like a single "cylinder", but they are 3 washers, just like the ones shown on the right.

Also note some of the other tips alluded to in this photo for improved running.  Once you clean all the paint off the pilot and trailing truck surfaces, and add a spring on the trailing truck, the pickup improves rather a lot.  On the 4-6-4, you'll get 4 more wheels on one side picking up power in addition to the drivers.

Also note my comment on adding LocTite to the main crank screws.  I know this scares some people because they fear they won't be able to unscrew them.  But use the green variety, not blue or red, and you will find you can break the screw free in the future if you really need to.

[peteski]

In a pinch a tiny dab of super glue on the threads can be used as thread locker (but the real stuff has a longer working time).  But regardless of whatever is  used, the threads and the threaded hole have to be clean and oil free.

[woodone]

Randgust- that’s the one. The one I have is the original , per the box.
I come from the industrial world and Loc-Tite Red was a perament, blue removeable and green was for locking bearings onto shafts.
Been away from this for a good many years so I guess types & colors have changed.

[mmagliaro]

Randgust- that’s the one. The one I have is the original , per the box.
I come from the industrial world and Loc-Tite Red was a perament, blue removeable and green was for locking bearings onto shafts.
Been away from this for a good many years so I guess types & colors have changed.

No, your interpretation is correct.  I guess I should have been more careful in my naming.  The Loc-Tite bearing lockers "Retaining Compounds" are indeed green, and they hold like iron.  But there is also a Loctite "green", like their 290 product, designed to wick into a joint (unlike thread lockers or retaining compounds where you are supposed to take the joint apart, apply the material, and then put it together).  Henkel (Loctite) says the 290 is "medium to high strength", and in some of their pages, they say it comes apart with hand tools and on others it says it requires heat to get apart.   The only "green" I have used is off-brand stuff and it comes apart without too much fuss.

But if you are nervous about it, there is also a Loctite 222 (Purple), listed as "low strength" "is a low-strength threadlocker that allows the adjustment of screws including countersunk head screws and set screws."

[woodone]

Told you I would report back on this . FIXED!  Finally got it to run forward and backwards for a number of laps on my layout.
No problems, no lock ups. No skips, nothing but smooth running.
Thanks for all the help and support on this.
Max, your photos were of great help, thank you for sharing them .
Who would have thought spacers on the main piston rod would have caused the problem.
I guess that I would have gotten to that sooner or later.
So this one is on its way home.
Video shot while running both directions.
Now to figure how to, post them on u-tube or something.
Thanks again.

[peteski]

That is a great news!  While we know the solution was adding the missing washer/spacer, but exactly what was jamming against what (for future reference)?

[woodone]

You know, I really don’t know? Thinking that with the inboard-outboard movement Of the piston rod one of the driver rod screws was getting bound up on it.
No matter how I tried to remove from the layout track I could not see the bind nor anything that was touching something to bind against.
Once I got a spacer in there and it ran , I was not about to take it out to try and see what was what.
Sorry- a bit gun shy.
I have one last brass locomotive to do and I think it will be my last.
Way too much time spent trying to make one run the way you want.

[mmagliaro]

Well, congratulations!  (I confess it would drive me crazy to now KNOW what was jamming, but I sympathize with your not wanting to fool with it anymore).  Oddly enough, I came to find brass locos to be actually easier to work on than plastic, especially modern plastic engines that come apart like weird puzzle boxes.  With most brass steam, it's two screws under the cab, maybe a screw at the pilot, and the whole boiler comes off.  And they usually are complete and runnable with the boiler off, so you can see what's going on if something is wrong.  They mostly come apart with screws, not glue, and it's easier to drill and otherwise retrofit brackets, repairs, or new motors into them.   The most difficult things about brass, I find,  are the tendency for little parts to bend or break off, or clearances to just be too darn tight, so as to cause shorts or mechanical obstructions on real-world track.

I am glad your engine woes with this one have come to an end!