Wutter's PCB Ties

[skent]

Hey All! I've been snooping around this forum for a while now and I figured I'd share a neat product I found last week. I haven't seen these posted here before, but correct me if I'm wrong. I bought some of Wutter's PCB Ties seen here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/254610233683

Take a look at the picture I've attached and you can see what I'm talking about. You can see the differences between the Atlas Flextrack ties, Wutter's ties, and the FastTracks ties. Please excuse the un-straightened FastTracks ties on the right, it took me forever to line them up… I've noticed when soldering to the FastTracks ties that the copper sometimes wants to peels off the substrate if the solder joint isn't set right the first time or something accidentally scrapes on a edge. Wutter's ties have a small space between the edge of the board and the copper which appears to help to prevent the copper from peeling away.

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I've used FastTracks PCB ties in the past and they have been fine solutions, but the gaps were way bigger than I liked and were super obvious from a distance. Wutter's PCBs come pre-double-gapped with small enough slits that you can't see the gap unless you look closely. I think that might be the biggest benefit honestly in addition to not having to line up individual ties when handlaying track.

I'm going to do some trackwork tomorrow with these to see how they look after being glued down and soldered to some Atlas code 55.  I'll respond here with some update pictures then.

Also, when I ordered mine Wutter also told me that he offers HO-scale PCB ties so that might be something to look into if you need them. Just thought I'd throw that out there!

-S

[peteski]

Interesting.  Those look very similar to ties I bought few years ago (I have to  dig through my documentation to figure out where I bought them).  These are actually etched and machined out of PC board material.

[Lemosteam]

@skent  Cool!  How to the three thicknesses compare?

[DKS]

The Wutters is 1.03 mm thick. I really don't see much use for them other than their intended purpose of bridging modules or other movable joints. For one thing, even though they are advertised to also be used for handlaid track, laying curves would be a PITA since they'd have to be cut up. Also, if you're going to the trouble of etching them, why not remove all of the copper except for tieplate-sized squares under the rails? Those gaps in the middle, though smaller than the FastTracks ones, are still visible, and at least pads under the rails have a chance of looking like tieplates.

I did this in Z Scale:

[garethashenden]

Once the track is laid but before it’s painted, fill the gaps on the FT ties with plastic filler, squadron or whatever. That removes the gap visually but keeps the electrical isolation.

[davefoxx]

Once the track is laid but before it’s painted, fill the gaps on the FT ties with plastic filler, squadron or whatever. That removes the gap visually but keeps the electrical isolation.

This is what I did on the FastTracks ties under the Code 40 rails in the trackage around the enginehouse on the Seaboard Central 2.0.  It worked fine, but I like @DKS's idea better, which would eliminate this step.

DFF

[DKS]

Once the track is laid but before it’s painted, fill the gaps on the FT ties with plastic filler, squadron or whatever. That removes the gap visually but keeps the electrical isolation.

I'd only do that if I wanted yet more PITA things to do that I really shouldn't have to do if they were made more sensibly in the first place. Sorry, but I just don't get it.

[Maletrain]

I like DKS's solution aesthetically (all copper removed except for tie plate sized areas).  But, I wonder about how sturdy the remaining amount of copper clad is with respect to force required to break it from the fiberglass board if there is some sort of mishap on the rails (+ clumsy handling of the clear-up activity).  Do some of you have experience that sheds light on that aspect?  Does clumsy soldering also weaken the attachment of the copper clad to the base ties, or do you always use glue?

[Frank Amato]

I've had a few "peeling" events with the FT ties, but only when I have tried to resolder or left the iron on the joint too long.  Modeler error for sure!

  Frank

[peteski]

Wutter's product is similar to the Gapmaster from http://americantieandtimber.com/4.html 




Wutter's are machined better (have square corners).

[peteski]

I've had a few "peeling" events with the FT ties, but only when I have tried to resolder or left the iron on the joint too long.  Modeler error for sure!

  Frank

Material used for these ties is a standard glass/epoxy laminate board with copper cladding.  Same material that is used for electronic circuits. The copper foil is attached to the board with high temperature epoxy adhesive.  The bond is pretty good, but if overheated the copper will delaminate.  I have had my share of delaminated copper traces (on electronic circuit boards) when they were reworked multiple times, or overheated. 

[skent]

Also, if you're going to the trouble of etching them, why not remove all of the copper except for tieplate-sized squares under the rails? Those gaps in the middle, though smaller than the FastTracks ones, are still visible, and at least pads under the rails have a chance of looking like tieplates.

You're completely right.  Tieplate sized solder pads would make for a better overall look; however, for something that can often times see damage like these do, I think they still have a sleek look that match surprisingly well with stock Atlas ties.

I have had my share of delaminated copper traces (on electronic circuit boards) when they were reworked multiple times, or overheated. 

I second this comment.   I'm overall pleasantly surprised with the quality of the ties after looking at them closely under my microscope.   I performed a stress test on the substrate by throwing the board in my make-shift reflow oven for a few minutes and the copper stayed perfectly in place. The color of the substrate darkened slightly, but that is to be expected in these scenarios.     Moral of the story is that these are likely a great solution for folks who may not be very comfortable with a soldering iron.    And at a discounted price compared to the Gapmasters, I think these are a win.

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As you can see in the attached pictures, I just soldered these down to some track to try out the final thickness.   Overall, the thickness looks perfect and they blend surprisingly well after painting.

-S

[CodyO]

Man... I just bought 40 more gapmasters but these look like a better solution....

[skent]

Man... I just bought 40 more gapmasters but these look like a better solution....

Oooph!   It seems like stuff like that always happens to me too....   After comparing the two up close I'd definitely say that the Wutter option is the higher quality option.     If you ordered them soon enough you might be able to cancel your order??  Just kidding

-S