Adding All Wheel Tender Pick Up

[Mike Madonna]

Good evening all,

I was wondering if anyone has added the above to any of their brass steam locos? Appreciate any thoughts, methods, etc....
Thanks in advance

[randgust]

Well, for ATSF steam, it's become easy.   Get one of the ATSF models tenders from Dirk.

That solved the POS pickup for my 1968 Jamco 4-6-2, about as bad as it gets.

[carlso]

Mike,

I too took the easy way out, as Randy did. I have a Key 4-6-6-4 that I wanted to decoderize and so I purchased an Atheran N scale Challenger tender.

I have two Key locos that I want to do the same so I shall be interested in the replies you receive as well.

Thanks for the post.

[wm3798]

At the very least, the all wheel, low friction axle point pick up trucks from Bachmann or Kato would be a place to start.  Getting a particular side frame can be done with 3D printing.  Using the OEM brass frame will make isolating those pickups a little tricky, but not impossible.  I've also been adding micro connectors between engine and tender on my old Rivarossis to make separating them for servicing a tad easier.  You'd need a few for a decoder set up, though...

Lee

[mmagliaro]

There are two ways I have done this.

1. As others have suggested, you get Bachmann or Kato all-wheel pickup trucks, you put them on your brass tender, you drill and file slots in the underside of the tender so the pickup fingers from the trucks will poke up inside the tender.  You make sure the fingers cannot touch the brass tender bottom no matter how the truck swivels.  You solder fine stranded wire to the fingers inside the tender and hard-wire them forward to the motor (or the decoder).

OR

2. Take the original brass trucks apart, cut the trucks in half and solder them back together over a piece of PC board that has a split in the middle so it doesn't short the left and rigth truck frame halves, reassemble with 00-90 brass screws and soldered wires so that the  brass sideframes become the cone-point axle holders just like the inserts do in a plastic Kato truck.

In case you haven't figured it out by now... Option 2 is a LOT OF WORK.  The brass sideframes aren't as precisely made or as corrosion-resistant as the phosphor bronze inserts used in a Kato truck, but they do work well and they do get you all-wheel pickup while preserving your original brass tender trucks. 

Here are some photos, step-by-step.  Actually, these may be helpful to you even if you just put Kato trucks under your tender, since the cutting out of the tender floor and the routing of wires up inside are the same either way.

[Mike Madonna]

Gentleman,
Thanks for your replies, appreciated!
Lee, I have a few of the B-Mann tender trucks, so they may come in handy. Max, yes "Option 2" is indeed a bit more work. Fortunately, the B-mann truck IS very close to the brass tender truck, just not as "fine". What I'm working with is the older (1987 run) Oriental Lmtd. SP C-8/9
2-8-0s with the 120-C "Vandy" tender. As you know, this tender does NOT have the full frame/floor under it. Actually, the entire tender is soldered. So, the "fingers" (as they are) may not work. I was thinking of cutting them down and soldering 32-36 gauge wire to them. As an aside, I'm using a LokPilot Nano (8 x 8 x 2.7 mm) and it actually fits between the top of the motor and the bottom of the cab. I also intend to add tungsten where ever possible. Max, I noticed in the photo, that's a "Sam" chassis. I presume that's from a PRR H Class? Also, so how involved is the flywheel addition????

[mmagliaro]

Gentleman,
Thanks for your replies, appreciated!
Lee, I have a few of the B-Mann tender trucks, so they may come in handy. Max, yes "Option 2" is indeed a bit more work. Fortunately, the B-mann truck IS very close to the brass tender truck, just not as "fine". What I'm working with is the older (1987 run) Oriental Lmtd. SP C-8/9
2-8-0s with the 120-C "Vandy" tender. As you know, this tender does NOT have the full frame/floor under it. Actually, the entire tender is soldered. So, the "fingers" (as they are) may not work. I was thinking of cutting them down and soldering 32-36 gauge wire to them. As an aside, I'm using a LokPilot Nano (8 x 8 x 2.7 mm) and it actually fits between the top of the motor and the bottom of the cab. I also intend to add tungsten where ever possible. Max, I noticed in the photo, that's a "Sam" chassis. I presume that's from a PRR H Class? Also, so how involved is the flywheel addition????

In the case of a Vandy tender, where everything is open, yes, you'll have to do something like cut down the fingers and solder wires to them.   The super-flex stuff that NGineering sells, which is 32 gauge total, is really nice.  Fine stranded decoder wire will also work.  As for the engine in that photo, as I recall, that's a Mashima 1015 motor, and I think that after the original motor came out, there was room for the flywheel, so I just put one on.  It's just a 10mm ready-made brass flywheel from either NWSL or Timewell.  Since the motor has a double shaft, you can just put teh shafts between the jaws of a jeweler's vise and press the flywheel on.

[NDave]

I have used Bachmann tender trucks to convert a Model Power Vandy tender to all-wheel pickup for my Bachmann 2-8-0. I cut the tender pickup "ears" short and bend the over, then soldered wire leads (TCI decoder wire).



The tender is plastic, so it was easy to drill holes either side of the trucks kingpin hole for the leads to pass up into the tender.



I installed a Tsunami 2 decoder, speaker, and capacitor in the tender.



I've done the same basic conversion on a Bachmann short USRA tender for my Bachmann ten wheeler, finding it provides much more reliable tender pickup.

[mmagliaro]

Yes, using wires off the bent-over thumbs is easier in many ways.  You don't have the chore of cutting slots to allow for movement of the fingers in the tender floor, which really helps on a brass tender floor.  Drilling two holes is a lot easier than making slots!
NDave... I did much the same thing as you when I used a Bachmann long Vanderbilt tender chassis in a SP&S steam kitbash.  Even though the original Bachmann tender has trucks with long fingers that go up inside the body, I  never liked how much those fingers show between the trucks and the chassis.  So just like you, I cut off the fingers and soldered wires on.  The photo below shows how much the finger really shows before you clip it off, bend it over, or otherwise get rid of it.  The truck on the left is clipped with wires.  The right-hand truck hasn't been done yet.

[nstars]

Mike,

The Niagara in the weekend update has 14 wheel power pickup (and an Athearn tender won’t work in this case). I know Hans has added all wheel pick up to many brass steamers and in most cases he didn’t use plastics trucks but reused the track side frames. I have to check some engines to get the details.

Marc

[Mike Madonna]

Thanks for the input.
Dave & Max, what you suggest about trimming/bending the "ears" is exactly what I was considering. The wire would have to be black and run up under the middle of the tender. Regarding wire, I have TCS 32 gauge black and ESU 36 gauge. As for that MP Vandy tender, it is a dead ringer for an SP 90-C class. Dave, I'm surprised you were able to fit all that in there. You obviously had to remove the weight, any issues with tracking, etc?
Marc, any details you and Hans can share would be great....