Intermountain Products

[unittrain]

Intermountain used to really not produce much for a decade or so, but recently has begun cranking stuff out. I guess they have settled in with their new factory.

[thomasjmdavis]

IKato and ScaleTrains are about the only companies that I really expect the arrival dates to not fall back.

Chris

I would add Bluford.  They were impacted by Chinese factory delays, but when they say they announce a model, it means they are making a model.

I have no experience with ScaleTrains (all their models are out of my era), but in the case of both Kato and Bluford... the time between first announcement and delivery is often less that the time that goes by for Intermountain between "scheduled for production" and "in production."  And without several years of "taking reservations" after the announcement. 

All of this conversation has gotten me to look at what IM is currently offering on "reservations".  And there are some things I could go for, IF I had any idea when they were coming, how to "reserve" so as to be sure of receiving one, and having some idea of cost when they arrive.  So, a few questions... Are there any major hobby shops that actively seek IM reservations?  I checked a few the other day that list IM as a line they carry, but when I went to their preorder page, IM was not listed under the products they were taking pre-orders for.  IM itself doesn;t have any dealer listings I could find on their page-  do all these reservations go directly through them?   Also, is there any pricing guarantee?  That is, with "reservation" times running into as much as a decade, and seemingly annual price increases, do they lock in pricing when you make your reservation?

[Maletrain]

All of this conversation has gotten me to look at what IM is currently offering on "reservations".  And there are some things I could go for, IF I had any idea when they were coming, how to "reserve" so as to be sure of receiving one, and having some idea of cost when they arrive.  So, a few questions... Are there any major hobby shops that actively seek IM reservations?  I checked a few the other day that list IM as a line they carry, but when I went to their preorder page, IM was not listed under the products they were taking pre-orders for.  IM itself doesn;t have any dealer listings I could find on their page-  do all these reservations go directly through them?   Also, is there any pricing guarantee?  That is, with "reservation" times running into as much as a decade, and seemingly annual price increases, do they lock in pricing when you make your reservation?

First, I will tell you that I just saw "Taking Backorders" for IM F3s with DCC+sound on the Train World website. https://www.trainworld.com/search/?bymanufacturer=6054&bycategory=&byscale=31&road_name=&electronics=&engine=

To your really important questions about how "pre-orders" actually work, the answer is that nobody really commits to anything on the manufacturers' end.  And, if they did seem to, there is really no way for a retail customer to hold them to it if they change their policies in the future or simply fail to meet their promises under the policies they have in effect.

On the other hand, some retailers will get extremely upset and maybe even vindictive if you cancel a pre-order. 

So far, pre-orders don't require much or any "down payment" from the customer.  HogTrains requires something like 1 cent on a credit card, which probably is just to validate the card number.  But, considering that BLI had a ten year wait period for the M1a, how many people change credit card providers in a decade?  And, even if you keep the same card provider for the entire wait period, I am seeing my credit company issue new card numbers more and more frequently when there is some "flag" on a transaction somewhere that they think indicates that my card number has been stolen.  So, long delays like IM is experiencing would create huge issues with pre-paid/charge-later pre-orders, even if the products were eventually delivered.  And, if they were eventually cancelled, then would there be refunds, or lawsuits? 

Personally, I try to stay out of the pre-order game, at least until I know that the product was really manufactured and is on a boat from China.  I think that conflating "pre-ordering" with what are really just pre-production surveys (to see how many people are serious about wanting something to be manufactured) is a practice that is hurting the hobby without really helping the manufacturers avoid risk.

[carlso]

" So, long delays like IM is experiencing would create huge issues with pre-paid/charge-later pre-orders, even if the products were eventually delivered.  And, if they were eventually cancelled, then would there be refunds, or lawsuits? "

This comment by "Maletrain" reminded me of a pre-order that I got into. Anybody remember many years ago when Con-Cor announced the production of an SP cabforward? Well I bit and paid the $50.00 order fee. After they announced the cancellation of the project it took me a good 6 months to get my advance returned. In fact, I saw Jim at a show in San Jose and only after speaking to him personally, did I get the refund. I stopped doing any business with Con-Cor and have never been asked for, nor would I ever pay a reservation fee to any manufacturer again. Hey, if they want to be in business than be in whole hog. Having said that, I have purchased several KATO releases on pre-order basis with my close and friendly e-tailer for a very nice discount, but no money up front.