Athearn SP&S 4-6-6-4 Still Challenged. ZERO for 2

[kverdon]

Well after returning my first Athearn 4-6-6-4 SP&S Challenger due to it having a frozen front truck, I received a replacement and tested it on the layout.  Unfortunately it too is defective.  It would run for a few feet then stop with sound off, lights off etc and then start up again.  I called Athearn Technical Support who had me test the locomotive connectivity and it was discovered that only the tender is picking up power from the rails, there is no power pickup from the engine itself.  His only solution was for me to send it back to them for repair. To say I am rather massively annoyed with Athearn right now is an understatement.  2 locomotive defective out of the box! Talk about Zero Quality Control.  This is the last Athearn Locomotive for me.

I decided to return this one to Athearn for repair as I have zero confidence that I can get a good one out of the box and will be forced to eventually go down this route.  At least this way I have a reasonable chance of finally receiving a working locomotive. Oh, and the lovely support tech informed me that they only have a part time repair person and this is their busy season so to expect at LEAST 4 weeks turnaround.

[Mark W]

This is one I easily fault the product designer for.  Wipers should be outlawed. 

My Big-Boy also arrived without driver pickup from either truck.  My fathers first-run Challenger has had intermittent tender pickup issues it's whole life.   In both cases, the wipers were at fault.

The Big-Boy's driver wipers were simply bent back, not making contact with the wheel.   In the Challenger tender, the wiper for each rail mounts to a common center assembly, the wire lead from one wiper was frayed and poking the wiper from the other rail.

If you're comfortable tinkering, it's a quite simple fix really.  I would qualify the driver pickups an entry-level fix; there's minimal risk to detail parts.  The tender is a bit more procedural to disassemble, and holy hell is it overly complicated.

I just finished installing ESU LokSound on my two, so the procedures are fresh in mind.  If you're up for giving it a try yourself, I can write up a step-by-step, and possibly get a few pictures.

[kverdon]

Much Thanks Mark! If you are up to putting together a quick how to, then I am willing to take a crack at it. The pickup problems are primarily on the engine side so if that’s fairly easy I’ll give it a go.

Thanks again,

Kevin

[Nick Lorusso]

I should have voted for Kato to produce these. Detail wouldn't be there but they would at least run.

[kverdon]

Hi Mark,

Thanks again for the offer on the connectivity tune up but on further thought, I am going to send it into Athearn for them to go over.  The unit also has a tendency to have the front truck derail so I'm hoping they can fix both issues and send it back. 

thanks again for the really huge offer,

Kevin

[peteski]

Hi Mark,

Thanks again for the offer on the connectivity tune up but on further thought, I am going to send it into Athearn for them to go over.  The unit also has a tendency to have the front truck derail so I'm hoping they can fix both issues and send it back. 

thanks again for the really huge offer,

Kevin

Did you check the wheel gauge?  It might be on the tight side.

[kverdon]

Thanks Petski, I did not check the front truck, I did notice that the tender lead truck was a bit narrow and corrected that..  I don't want to mess with it right now so I will let Athearn take a shot at fixing it up. The loco was to replace another loco on the roster so the older loco will get some extended running time. 

I just don't get it. My other Athearn Challegers run great, why all the problems with this run (and the big boys?)? I wonder if they changed manufacturers in China to an inferior company? Would explain the extended delay on delivery. Glad there is virtually no loco Athearn is likely to produce that I would want for the layout, I am done with Athearn.

[kverdon]

Hey Marc, have a question, given you have some experience taking these apart. How hard is it to remove the boiler and tender shells?.  I have an extra original run 4-6-6-4 and if my SP&S 910 still does not run well when I get it back, I am wondering about the feasibility of putting the SP&S boiler and tender shell on the mechanism?

[delamaize]

Did you check the wheel gauge?  It might be on the tight side.

Mine were all tight, with the trailing truck being the worse. I also had a problem with the front truck stopping while the rear kept turning on tighter corners. I discovered that the 2nd idler gear would walk to one side during sharp corners. I made a spacer from one side, and part of a small, stiff, rapido coupler spring for the other side. That seemed to have fixed the issue. the other Issue I ran into was the screw that connects the drawbar to the tender was too loose. tightening it down fixed an issue with a huge gap between the loco and the tender.

It ran great at the Chillawack chow a few weeks ago, and we have the Great Train Show in Puyallup this weekend, we will see how it does there. So far I'm happy with mine though.

[delamaize]

Mine were all tight, with the trailing truck being the worse. I also had a problem with the front truck stopping while the rear kept turning on tighter corners. I discovered that the 2nd idler gear would walk to one side during sharp corners. I made a spacer from one side, and part of a small, stiff, rapido coupler spring for the other side. That seemed to have fixed the issue. the other Issue I ran into was the screw that connects the drawbar to the tender was too loose. tightening it down fixed an issue with a huge gap between the loco and the tender.

It ran great at the Chillawack show a few weeks ago, and we have the Great Train Show in Puyallup this weekend, we will see how it does there. So far I'm happy with mine though.

[peteski]

Thanks Petski, I did not check the front truck, I did notice that the tender lead truck was a bit narrow and corrected that..  I don't want to mess with it right now so I will let Athearn take a shot at fixing it up. The loco was to replace another loco on the roster so the older loco will get some extended running time. 

I just don't get it. My other Athearn Challegers run great, why all the problems with this run (and the big boys?)? I wonder if they changed manufacturers in China to an inferior company? Would explain the extended delay on delivery. Glad there is virtually no loco Athearn is likely to produce that I would want for the layout, I am done with Athearn.

N scale locos (steam and diesel) are often tight-gauged (not sure why). I also doubt that this will be corrected while they service it.  Maybe manufacturers use different wheel gauge than the hobbyists? 

The tight gauge is not a problem with most of the track. But Atlas c55 has narrower flangeways and tightly gauged locos will climb either over the guard rail or over the frog when traversing turnouts.  Whether a tight-gauged loco will climb the track is also dependent on how wide (not deep) the flange is on the model's wheels (which affects the wheelset's back to back width). If the flange is thin then a tight-gauged wheelset will pass Atlas c55 turnout problem-free.

Too bad that they all just don't simply follow the NMRA wheel profile.  The standard is freely available - they just have to adhere to it.

[Mark W]

Hey Mark, have a question, given you have some experience taking these apart. How hard is it to remove the boiler and tender shells?.  I have an extra original run 4-6-6-4 and if my SP&S 910 still does not run well when I get it back, I am wondering about the feasibility of putting the SP&S boiler and tender shell on the mechanism?

Very easy.  There is a visible screw in the smoke stack, and a hidden screw under a cap toward the cab.  Spookshow has a good image:

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/files/athearn4884mech.jpg


The cap is just press fit.  I use an xacto blade as a lever to pry it up.  Once both screws are removed, the boiler simply lifts off.  Note: that grab iron at the back of the cab loops under the frame.  Tilt/Lift the boiler from the front/smoke stack, then slide the cab toward the tender to allow the grab iron to clear the frame.  You may need to lift at the draw bar to tilt the tender away from the engine. 

Once the boiler is off, you can inspect whether all wires are properly soldered into place.  Here Athearn did a good job with silkscreen labeling on the circuit board. 

[kverdon]

Thanks, though that pic looks to be the Big Boy, not the Challenger.  I did not see a second screw in the parts diagram, just the one in the Stack.  Is the tender shell hard to get off.  It looks to just have the 2 screws?

thanks,

Kevin

[Mark W]

Assembly and screw locations are identical for both Challenger and Big Boy.  If you pop off that cap near the cab, you'll see the second screw.

Tender shell is a lot more tricky to get off.  There are two screws holding on the top holding the shell to the frame, but there are several screws along the bottom that also hold each end of the shell, which are separate parts, to the frame. 
First the top screws should be removed, then the bottom screws (even the screw holding the coupler extends through to the shell end).  Then pry the ends outward from the top and lift/slide off.  The front end will have handrails that attach to the frame, they may be glued, but just pull them away from the frame. 
Once the ends are off, the rest of the tender shell slides backward.  You may have to flare the bottom to clear the weights as you slide.