Author Topic: Old-School photo techniques in a digital world?  (Read 2516 times)

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p51

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Old-School photo techniques in a digital world?
« on: March 28, 2017, 06:06:58 PM »
+1
I’m just curious if anyone thinks there’s anything to be learned from the era of large-format negatives or 35MM in regard to model photography.
After my layout became what I refer to as, “photo worthy” I went back and read several of the old magazine and book passages on model train photography. Lacking a darkroom and realizing that a lot of digital manipulation of photos can look, well, terrible (putting real loco smoke into a photo with the lighting totally off, can look laughable).
Taking some of these old techniques, I think I got some good effects. Some of the other shots I took around the same time as these will be in the new On30 Annual which should be out next month.
I’m hardly saying my work is any better than anyone else’s, but I have raised some eyebrows with the local modelers when I told them I used no software at all on these shots other than to crop them.
Most were taken in 30+ second exposures and the ‘smoke’ and ‘steam were formed structures of paper, foam or cotton, moved under the long exposures and removed for a translucent look.
My point is, we can learn a lot from the old heads when it comes to photography!





Mark5

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Re: Old-School photo techniques in a digital world?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2017, 06:55:44 PM »
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My point is, we can learn a lot from the old heads when it comes to photography!
Yup.  8)


Lenny53

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Re: Old-School photo techniques in a digital world?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2017, 09:06:18 AM »
+1
I’m just curious if anyone thinks there’s anything to be learned from the era of large-format negatives or 35MM in regard to model photography.


So many of the tools of digital photo processing are based on film techniques that were used.

p51

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Re: Old-School photo techniques in a digital world?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2017, 11:28:26 AM »
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So many of the tools of digital photo processing are based on film techniques that were used.
Yeah, but I have shown some of my long-exposure shots to other model railroaders very few of them realized you can do photo effects during the exposure or that long exposures can cure some depth-of-field issues with models. So many are into photo layering on the computer.

Mark5

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Re: Old-School photo techniques in a digital world?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2017, 01:13:54 PM »
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Yeah, but I have shown some of my long-exposure shots to other model railroaders very few of them realized you can do photo effects during the exposure or that long exposures can cure some depth-of-field issues with models. So many are into photo layering on the computer.

My gut reaction is to dislike the layering approach.

Yes, with film, one legacy approach for depth of field was a pin-hole camera  (aperture aka f-stop) and long exposures. Before digital, at times I was in the dark room etc. My film camera equipment now takes up space in a closet, but the tripod still sees action. 8)

One of these days I'll get back into the photography end of this hobby.

Mark


robert3985

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Re: Old-School photo techniques in a digital world?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2017, 06:34:21 AM »
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At a basic level, digital photography is just like analog photography...manipulating the amount and quality of light that the recording medium (film or sensor) senses. 

This means that things such as exposure, aperture, ISO (ASA), grain (noise), color temperature and composition remain close to being the same.

Once you get past the basic level, digital photography allows exponentially more photo manipulation than film ever did or could.  However most DSLR's are still machines, with mechanical shutters that would work equally well with film instead of a sensor surface.  Lenses still focus, still have an iris allowing us to choose the f-stop, and cameras still allow us to choose the shutter speed (if you're using something other than a point & shoot or cellphone camera!) 

On the other hand, many of the aberrations that were inherent with lenses are now eliminated by the camera body's software, and even the amount of sharpness (or lack thereof) can be chosen.  On many modern DSLR's, fine-tuning an individual lens's critical focus is easily possible in just a few seconds, and the camera body remembers the setting. Some cameras allow you to set individual photographic parameters for two divergent scenarios, such as one set of parameters for portraits, and one for sports.

Although I appreciate old techniques and equipment such as pinhole cameras, long exposures combined with small f-stops to increase DoF, the image suffers greatly from diffraction using a pinhole lens or "normal" lenses stopped way down.  Also, the closer you get, the more limited your DoF becomes, which these old techniques do nothing to overcome, and were just something we had to live with.

That is, until FOCUS STACKING!!! ...possible only through the inclusion and use of certain software into the photo-creation stream.  Since when shooting multiple photos to stack, you don't have to worry about the lens's DoF, you can shoot at your lens's "sweet spot" for the best possible photos to stack (usually between f-5.6 and f-8.0) instead of sacrificing image quality through diffraction for more DoF.  And, DoF now becomes only limited by your lens's ability to close focus, not by what is distant.

Truthfully, although it certainly takes less time and effort to shoot a composition using a long exposure and a small f-stop with your camera mounted on a tripod, you have much more control over DoF using focus stacking.  With a lens that will focus 1:1, you are really not limited any longer by DoF in miniature, static subject photography.

Until you use it, play with it and get to know it, you really don't know what quality focus stacking software can do for your model railroad photography if you desire realistic photos.

As for wiggling artifacts to look like smoke and steam during long exposures....I've done that many times back in the last century, but it always looked like wiggled artifacts to me.  Sure, just like anything else, if you don't do it correctly and with thought, cloning a photo of real smoke into a model railroad scene can look hideous.  BUT, done correctly, it can look sublime....ommmmmmmmm...  :D

Seeing the OP's wiggled smoke/steam brought back a lot of happy memories of the 80's and 90's...but, the digital age is here, and since I sold my pro Nikon bodies, I haven't looked back....

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

p51

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Re: Old-School photo techniques in a digital world?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2017, 12:16:37 PM »
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At a basic level, digital photography is just like analog photography...
Yes,but it's amazing how few people realize that. I have shown my photos to other people and consistently, I get the reaction of, "Wow, it never occurred to me to try some effects in real time," which supports my conclusion that the old school ideas have died out entirely but there's still much to learn from them.
Seeing the OP's wiggled smoke/steam brought back a lot of happy memories of the 80's and 90's...but, the digital age is here, and since I sold my pro Nikon bodies, I haven't looked back....
I have yet to see anyone digitally put in steam/smoke into a shot on the computer where it doesn't look exactly like what they've done (and not things that were in the photo to start with, or even really belong there).
My shots are simply experiments and not an end result (though I've been published with them and two editors were pleased with how they turned out), but the smoke leaves shadows, there are no distinct lines between effects and the rest of the image, and the lighting matches as it's all taken at the time same time.
I've gone back to research how they used to do it in the old days, as I think this is a lost art that people should really look into re-discovering.