Chassis swap; old for new?

[mecgp7]

I am preparing to reduce my collection of locos all of which are DC and few DCC ready. I am wondering if swapping out the old chassis for a new DCC ready one would be an overall net gain? I am only talking about unique custom stuff like my U33Cs, etc. I could easily sell the old chassis and the new shell from the loco I'd purchase for the chassis. It might sound crazy, but I would think any DCC guy will really only be buying the old unit for the shell. I am thinking eBay would be the way to go.

[randgust]

I very much doubt I'm in the majority, but I deliberately seek out the older ones on Ebay for a variety of reasons.

1)  The C30/U30 chassis is possibly the best-pulling six-axle older mech out there until you get into the modern era.  It's a heavy frame.  If you're looking for pulling power rather than electronic whiz-bang, it's one of the best ever made, 2X better than Atlas six-axles like the C630.
2)  The original Kato motors are faster than an Atlas slow-speed, slower than an Atlas high-speed, so if you're DC and looking to MU with anything else, you're searching out compatible ones and carefully checking old vs. new frames.
3)  Older used Katos really, really hold up.  I have a fleet that's mostly built from Kato six-axles and now have, hmmm.. 12 of them.   Three U-boats, 2 SD40 chassis repurposed, seven SD45 chassis.  I have no qualms about buying old Katos, can't say that about much else. 

I'm not sure if you'd come ahead or not, I'm just saying that the best part about old Katos is sure not the shell, it's the pulling power and durability, as I don't see much out there now that's even close.   I've gone as far as buying an IM SD45-2 and repowering it with a Kato SD40-2.    My current single-unit pulling power champ is heavily redone Lima FP45 shell on a Kato SD40-2 chassis with all that 'airspace' packed full of lead.  It's not just the weight, it's the wheel material, too - gets a better grip than Atlas and I can prove it. 

[mecgp7]

Couldn't agree more. I love the old Katos. Even the U25Bs can be made to purr. What I have found is that an older Kato chassis often sells better than the whole loco.
Maybe that is what I need to do; sell the shell and chassis separately.

[u18b]

Randy is right.  Opinions vary.

And while it might also be in the minority, I'm with Randy.

I like the old chassis.  They are heavier.

And if I need to install DCC, TCS makes a decoder that replaces the light board.  A little simple soldering.

Worth it to me.

For me the cutoff between old and new is low friction trucks.

So I got rid of all my old RS-1s, U25B, and F units and replaced them with more modern stuff.

But GP30/35,  U30C,  SD40, GP40.  I like the old chassis.

[djconway]

I too favor the older units, and cutting in a decoder is a 45 minute or less operation.  Not sure when Kato changed the alloy used for the frame but the oldest frames are noticeably heavier.

[peteski]

There are plenty of "DCC guys" who do not mind (or even prefer) to mill out their own space for the decoder. Especially if it will be a sound decoder install.  Or even for the masses, there is the TCS decoder which replaced the small DC light boards.  The old low-friction mechanism Katos are just as good as the newer releases.

[GhengisKong]

I try to get exclusively old Kato chassis for my F units and any of the older Kato made stuff. All for the pulling powah.

[atsf_arizona]

Couldn't agree more. I love the old Katos. Even the U25Bs can be made to purr.

Not trying to hijack this thread, but.... MecGP7, what do you do to get the old Atlas/Kato U25B chassis to purr?   Remove the inner bearing block i.e. the "Bearden fix"?     

I second what everyone says, I love the old Kato U30C/C30-7, Kato SD40, and Atlas/Kato GP30/35 mechanisms.   Incredibly good especially given the 20+ years since they were made, they have stood up superbly over time. 

But now I have been working on building up a small fleet of Atlas/Kato SP U25B's.  Found most of the Atlas/Kato U25B's mechanisms that I've bought off that auction site, to be "growlers", quite loud.    I've not yet tried to do the "Bearden fix" on one of these......  highly recommended?

Back to the original topic of this thread now:   I have been told (but haven't yet done it myself) that swapping the new Atlas DCC-ready U25B mechanism and putting it under the old Atlas/Kato U25B shell, is no problem.  For what it's worth.   

[mecgp7]

Not trying to hijack this thread, but.... MecGP7, what do you do to get the old Atlas/Kato U25B chassis to purr?   Remove the inner bearing block i.e. the "Bearden fix"?     

I second what everyone says, I love the old Kato U30C/C30-7, Kato SD40, and Atlas/Kato GP30/35 mechanisms.   Incredibly good especially given the 20+ years since they were made, they have stood up superbly over time. 

But now I have been working on building up a small fleet of Atlas/Kato SP U25B's.  Found most of the Atlas/Kato U25B's mechanisms that I've bought off that auction site, to be "growlers", quite loud.    I've not yet tried to do the "Bearden fix" on one of these......  highly recommended?

Back to the original topic of this thread now:   I have been told (but haven't yet done it myself) that swapping the new Atlas DCC-ready U25B mechanism and putting it under the old Atlas/Kato U25B shell, is no problem.  For what it's worth.

You can swap the shells from one chassis to another.
The Bearded fix is part of the solution. Additional steps:
1. Remove the wheel wipers from the trucks. This will improve operation if you do nothing else.
2. Carefully file the flashing from the insides of the axle "holders". The U shaped slots that the axles sit in. Use a round file and one swipe will show you what needs to be done. File/burnish smooth.
3. Clean the axles. I use alcohol, paper towel and tweezers.
4. Clean the wheels.
5. File/burnish where the trucks connect electrically with the chassis. Do both the under side of the chassis and the areas on the trucks that make contact.
6. You can even burnish the area where the motor leads touch the inside of the frame halves.
7. Wherever you have an electrical connection I use a touch of No-Ox anti-oxidation fluid.
8. Lubricate the 'bearings' where the motor shafts come out of the motor.
9. Light lubrication of the remaining bearing block and gears.
10. The older units come with two heat shields which are held magnetically to the sides of the motor. Adjust for noise as necessary or if you have the guts remove them. I have and have not had issues with heat, but I also don't run my locos for extended periods of time.
11. CLEAN TOUR TRACK (this goes for any model railroad.

The key in these older Katos is to reduce friction and improve electrical conductivity to the motor. Kato made a great motor and as long as you feed it a steady supply of power it'll   operate flawlessly. The No-Ox helps keep the electrical connections "conducting" both during operation and in storage.

You can do this same procedure with the older RS3s, RS11s (same chassis) and variations of the above with the RS1s, GP30/35s.

Once you do a few, you can whip right through them. Many of my older Katos out perform their newer Atlas cousins even without flywheels. They also outweigh them for added pulling power. Caveat: I run DC.

[thomasjmdavis]

My early Kato experience is limited to F units, but as to pulling power, one proved sufficient to pull a 12 car Super Chief up a 2% grade on my old layout, and ATSF would have used 3 in real life (and 4 or 5 for a longer train).  I am thinking I may "dummy" some of my B units if I go through with a DCC conversion (to save on power and decoders) since any 2 in a 4 unit lash up would supply enough pulling power for any train I might pull with them. 

Not to go too far afield, but this does bring up a question (I figure I could answer it with a bit of experimentation, but will save myself some time and potentially making a mess out of an F unit by asking).  The frames of the original issue Fs and the "first revision" (early 90s) appear the same to me- although I think the motors have different part numbers they look interchangeable (although I haven't tried that).  The trucks and (I don't have one opened up at the moment, need more coffee before I do anything like that) IIRC some of the electrical connections are the only differences.  Can the 90s trucks be swapped onto an original frame and operate properly?

Thanks,
Tom D.

PS- for just total tractive effort, I would nominate the Kato built Con Cor DL109.  If you ever wear out the motor, it can be used as a boat anchor.

[Cajonpassfan]

I try to get exclusively old Kato chassis for my F units and any of the older Kato made stuff. All for the pulling powah.

I have a bunch of the older Kato F units, most never run. If you (or anyone else) are interested in swap or trade for DCC friendly chassis, I'd be interested. Doesn't have to be one for one....
Otto K.

[u18b]

The "Bearden Fix" is removing the inner bearing blocks on 4 axle locos when possible.

The overall procedure is here:
http://southernmodeler.info/Bearingblock.pdf

[GhengisKong]

I have a bunch of the older Kato F units, most never run. If you (or anyone else) are interested in swap or trade for DCC friendly chassis, I'd be interested. Doesn't have to be one for one....
Otto K.

Really? That is interesting. Unfortunately, I don't have any new chassis to swap for, otherwise I'd be sending a PM right away.
Taylor

[atsf_arizona]

MecGP7,

Thx for the detailed reply.  Very much appreciated.