MRC / MP 4-4-0 with Sound Pulling Improvements

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Asking for my Dad...

He just got one, and the pulling power is a bit anemic compared to his older ones.

On his previous one, he did a trick with the tender axle wipers to relieve some pressure and "release the brakes" that had a significant improvement. He went to do the same and discovered that they've got axle cups instead (hooray).

Anyone have any recommendations for him to try?

[peteski]

Yeah, the latest release has the low-friction trucks (and traction tire on the drivers, right)?   Most of the loco is also die-cast out of metal?  So there isn't much to be done to increase the pulling power.

Maybe relocate the traction-tire-driver, or shim its bearings to make it better contact the track? Maybe relocating the draw-bar would help?

[daniel_leavitt2000]

If you can still find them, why not just add a second TT wheel set? The new tender should be able to handle all pickup.

[Joetrain59]

I think I did read that someone did relocate TT axle to rear, as it comes installed in center?? Pulling power was improved. I never did a long train with mine, just 5 cars. I should see what she'll pull.
 Joe D

[jdcolombo]

For my anemic-pulling-power Berks, I did this:

Buy a roll of thin Scotch double-sided tape (not the foam stuff; the thin stuff comes in a black and yellow dispenser and is sometimes called "photo mounting tape").  Tear off a 2" strip of the tape, and put it on a glassy flat surface - I've used everything from our polished granite kitchen counter to a Corelle dinner plate.   Using a brand new #11 blade in a hobby knife and a metal straightedge, cut two strips from the long side of the tape that are about 1mm wide.

Invert the loco.  Put the end of one strip on one of the rear-most driver.  Apply power at the lowest possible speed, and feed the tape around the driver.  When you reach the starting point, stop, and use the tip of the #11 blade to cut the tape right at the overlap point.  Do the same for the other driver.  Put the loco on the track and slowly run it forward and backward for a few feet to "set" the tape.

On my Berks, these "tape traction tires" increased pulling power from about 6 cars and a caboose to 30 cars and a caboose.  The tape will NOT leave a residue on the track; instead, it will pick up dust and dirt from the track, which only seems to improve pulling power.  After about 20 hours of running, the tape will wear through, and you'll need to replace it, but that's a 5-minute job.  Honestly - this works.  Try it.

John C.

[peteski]

For my anemic-pulling-power Berks, I did this:

Buy a roll of thin Scotch double-sided tape (not the foam stuff; the thin stuff comes in a black and yellow dispenser and is sometimes called "photo mounting tape").  Tear off a 2" strip of the tape, and put it on a glassy flat surface - I've used everything from our polished granite kitchen counter to a Corelle dinner plate.   Using a brand new #11 blade in a hobby knife and a metal straightedge, cut two strips from the long side of the tape that are about 1mm wide.

Invert the loco.  Put the end of one strip on one of the rear-most driver.  Apply power at the lowest possible speed, and feed the tape around the driver.  When you reach the starting point, stop, and use the tip of the #11 blade to cut the tape right at the overlap point.  Do the same for the other driver.  Put the loco on the track and slowly run it forward and backward for a few feet to "set" the tape.

On my Berks, these "tape traction tires" increased pulling power from about 6 cars and a caboose to 30 cars and a caboose.  The tape will NOT leave a residue on the track; instead, it will pick up dust and dirt from the track, which only seems to improve pulling power.  After about 20 hours of running, the tape will wear through, and you'll need to replace it, but that's a 5-minute job.  Honestly - this works.  Try it.

John C.

John,
Is your traction tire installed in addition to the factory-installed tire?  Over the existing tire or on another driver?  Berk also had 3 driven axles where 4-4-0 has only 2.

[jdcolombo]

Hi Peteski.

The Berk doesn't have any traction tires already, so it wasn't an issue.  On the 4-4-0, I'd try putting the tape over the current traction tired drivers; I did this on my Bachmann 2-8-0 and my Walthers 0-8-0, with significant pulling power improvement.  On the 2-8-0, I noticed that the traction tires were so narrow that sometimes they didn't contact the rails well; the tape is basically the entire width of the driver, and doesn't have that problem.  You can try different drivers and see what works best - this isn't a very expensive modification - a roll of tape costs $2 or so, and will last a lifetime.

John C.

[brokemoto]

If you can still find them, why not just add a second TT wheel set? The new tender should be able to handle all pickup.

The tenders on the MRC/MPs USRA lights are the same as the old ones:  half wheels live.  Supposedly, MRC copied MT and made the pilot truck live.  I do not know how either MT or MRC did the pilot truck on the eight wheeler, but if the pilot truck pick-up on the eight wheeler is anything like that on the MRC/MP USRA light pacific, it is woefully inadequate.

Ed does suggest that the tender pick-up on the eight wheeler is different from that on the USRA lights.  Is it all wheels live, Ed?   The pick-ups on the USRA lights are wires on axles.  It looks like a better/more reliable version of the old Rivarossi tender pick-up wipers.

The new MRC/MP USRA eight wheeler is supposed to have one tyred driver pair.  If it is slipping, the first thing that I would do is check to make sure that the tyred drivers are making contact with the track.  In addition, you might check the drawbar to make sure that it is not lifting the locomotive from the track.  The drawbar on the MRC/MP USRA light Pacific that I purchased last week was put on so poorly that the peg in the tender to which it fastens broke when I took it out of the box.  I managed a little customer supplied QC (MT coupler screws have all sorts of uses) and the drawbar problem was fixed. 

Another problem that I encountered in the USRA light pacific was the pick up wipers for the pilot truck were causing it to seat improperly, thus lifting the locomotive from the track.   Have your father make sure that the pick-ups are in their proper place.  I had to use a very small jeweller's screwdriver to poke the contacts back down into place.  This allowed the pilot truck to seat properly and the locomotive to run properly.  If MRC is using the same type of pick-up to make the eight wheeler pilots live that it does on the USRA light Pacific, there are going to be problems.  Every time that you want to run the thing, you will have to make sure that the pick-up contacts for the pilots are in the proper place.  Further, the pick-ups do not do a very good job of making the pilots live.

To sum:

1.  Have him check the drawbar and how it seats.
2.  Have him make sure that the peg onto which the drawbar is supposed to fasten is not broken
3.  Have him make sure that the contact wipers for the pilots are not fouling the pilot truck
4.  Have him make sure that the locomotive is sitting properly on the track.

I did not know that the eight wheeler was available. 

I assume that your father purchased a PRR version.  I guess that means another locomotive to pull my Athearn STRASBURG cars (I use the B-mann mogul with the CN lettering already).  I would want to add a Belpaire firebox (similar to what Third Rail did to his MDC 2-8-0).  I wonder if you can match the DGLE paint.

I do hope that the tender is all wheels live.  That would be a necessary improvement.  Hopefully, if MRC does a second run of the USRA lights, they will do similar with the tender.

[mmagliaro]

Frankly, I'm shocked that the pulling would be worse than the old ones, given that the old MP 4-4-0 had no traction tire at all and had axle wipers on the tender.

How about,
1. Make sure the 4 tender truck axles spin free with your finger (as in you can whip them around and they spin for a little bit; they
don't just turn once or twice and stop).

2. Check the drawbar linkage from the tender and make sure it's not lifting up under the rear of the engine.  It might be taking weight off the traction tire driver.  You may be able to just loosen a drawbar screw 1/2 turn or so, so that it can flop a little more.

[nickelplate759]

John,
Is your traction tire installed in addition to the factory-installed tire?  Over the existing tire or on another driver?  Berk also had 3 driven axles where 4-4-0 has only 2.

I think John's referring to the Life-Like Berks, which have no tires, not the Bachman or Roco/Rivarossi Berks, which have 2 tires (in different places).

George

[peteski]

I think John's referring to the Life-Like Berks, which have no tires, not the Bachman or Roco/Rivarossi Berks, which have 2 tires (in different places).

George

But I was under the impression that in this thread we are specifically discussing the newest run of the MRC/MP 4-4-0 model (not several different or older models). Sorry.

[Nato]

            :|I have two of the new 2-6-0's and two of the new 4-4-0's . I ran them stock brand new out of the box in DCC on the Wasatch N Scale layout at a train show in January. The 2-6-0 locomotives easily pulled ten car trains for several hours one even pulled eleven cars. The 4-4-0 locomotives would spin their wheels with ten cars , but easily pulled six cars. I attributed this to the fact that they are slightly smaller locomotives with fewer drivers. My old versions of these locomotives never converted to DCC , but run with wireless DC on both my home layout and on club layout pulled (will pull) not quite the same number of cars. Eight for the 2-6-0 locomotives and five cars for the 4-4-0 lokies. Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah. 

[brokemoto]

My old versions of these locomotives  pull not quite the same number of cars. Eight for the 2-6-0 locomotives and five cars for the 4-4-0 lokies. Nate Goodman

I noted your comment that you are running the new versions stock.  Are you running the old versions stock, as well?  Due to the presence of the traction tyre coupled with a half wheels live tender, my Moguls had stalling problems at speeds less than thirty five SMPH, even on straight and level.  I swapped in a B-mann SPECTRUM USRA standard, which made the stalling problems go away.

 I did a pulling power test.  The Mogul pulled fifteen loaded MT gondolas and an MT wood caboose up a one per-cent grade at fifteen SMPH and showed no sign of slipping.  I did not try any more.  Years later, I did the same test on a two-point-two per-cent grade.  It went down to seven or eight cars and the caboose.

I fitted Bachpersonn tenders to two of the old eight wheelers.  The pulling power went from three Bachmann shorty passenger cars and an express boxcar (all on MT trucks) on straight and level to five and the express car at forty SMPH.  On a one per-cent grade, I had to lose either the express car or one of the shorty passenger cars.   On the two-point-two, it is down to two
 B-mann shorties at twenty SMPH,

I do not have either the new eight wheeler or Mogul.  Is the tender all wheels live on those?

I did find a new MRC version of the USRA light Pacific; a DC only version (I am not a DCC user).  On another forum, I revived an old topic and basically blasted the thing in its stock form   Once I fitted a B-mann SPECTRUM tender to it, it  turned into an excellent locomotive.  The wiper piece that is supposed to make the pilots live is woefully inadequate.

What escapes me is that some of the recent steam that has appeared has been quite pricey but sells well.  This is proof that people will pay for well constructed good running steam locomotives,  MRC should have updated the archaic construction methods on the USRA lights (as well as on the eight-wheeler and Mogul, if it is still using the same out of date construction methods that MP used), instead of trying to work around them.