Author Topic: GMD-1 speed matching  (Read 1011 times)

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woodchip

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GMD-1 speed matching
« on: February 20, 2016, 10:21:30 AM »
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So after listening to all the talk about sound in N I took the plunge and put a sound equipped GMD-1 on the tracks to accompany the 2 non sound units I have. I'm not going into the running quality but they are as nice as current Atlas products but not Kato smooth. The real problem I have is speed matching the ESU decoder sound unit with  Digitrax non sound units. I'm good with doing a 3 step CV change and I'm hoping that some one has numbers other than the basic suggestions from Digitrax. The other possibility would be to change out the DZ126 decoder for an equivalent ESU decoder. If anyone has info on this I'm looking forward to learning their results in the mean time I'll keep trying to get the three of the GMD-1's I have to play nice together

                                                             Hugh

                                                                                       

peteski

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Re: GMD-1 speed matching
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2016, 11:30:43 AM »
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I don't think you will get a perfect match with any 2 decoders (even if both models are identical). There are too many variables at play.  But close-enough should be good enough.

For decades we MU'd different type or brand locos running in DC. We used diodes and resistors, or even swapped motors to get the best match, but to no avail.  Still, the 100-car coal trains pulled by 4 slightly mismatched DC locos ran fine on the NTRAK layouts.

You should be able to get good enough match using CV2, 6, and 5 (just as you planned).  Just adjust the 2 and 5 first, then adjust 6.  They don't have to be perfect.  I suspect that even if you installed ESU non-sound decoders, their motor control would be different from the sound units.
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jdcolombo

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Re: GMD-1 speed matching
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2016, 01:04:19 PM »
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So after listening to all the talk about sound in N I took the plunge and put a sound equipped GMD-1 on the tracks to accompany the 2 non sound units I have. I'm not going into the running quality but they are as nice as current Atlas products but not Kato smooth. The real problem I have is speed matching the ESU decoder sound unit with  Digitrax non sound units. I'm good with doing a 3 step CV change and I'm hoping that some one has numbers other than the basic suggestions from Digitrax. The other possibility would be to change out the DZ126 decoder for an equivalent ESU decoder. If anyone has info on this I'm looking forward to learning their results in the mean time I'll keep trying to get the three of the GMD-1's I have to play nice together

                                                             Hugh                                                                                       

Hi Hugh.

Here's what I do when matching different-decoder locos (including ESU Loksounds with TCS and Lenz).   You will need some sort of test loop, or you can do this on your layout as long as you can see the locomotives at all times.   

First, set each loco to a common set of values for CV's 2, 5 and 6.  I use 1 for CV2, 100 for CV6 and 200 for CV 5.  Set CV's 3 and 4 to zero. Now consist the two locomotives you are trying to match (for this, use the sound-equipped one, and one of your non-sound-equipped ones), but DO NOT couple them together.  Instead, put them about a foot apart and crack open the throttle.  What you want to do here is see which loco is faster.  Increase speed to about half throttle, and again see which is faster - if the rear loco is catching up or the front is pulling away.  When you have decided which is faster, take it off the track.

Step 2.  Using Ops Mode programming (programming on the main), set the speed curve you want for the slower loco, beginning with CV2=1.  Set CV 5 and 6 to whatever you want (I typically decide on how fast I want the loco to go at max throttle first, then enter half that value for CV6 - for example, let's say I think a value of 120 in CV 5 gives me an appropriate maximum speed; I'll enter 120 in CV5 and 60 in CV6, which gives me a linear speed curve).   But just set it up however you like it.

Step 3.  Put the faster loco back on the track, and program CV's 2, 5 and 6 to the same values as you used in Step 2 to set the speed curve for the slower loco.  Put the faster loco in front of the slower one, and separate them by about a foot.    Now open your throttle to full blast, and using Ops Mode programming for the FASTER loco, set CV5 at a value that matches its speed to the slower loco.  You will do this by iteration.  Start by reducing the value of CV5 in the faster loco by 10.  Not enough?  10 again.  Too much? add 5, and so forth until you get a good speed match at max throttle.

Step 4.  Now set your throttle at half, and match the faster loco to the slower one using Ops Mode programming for CV6.   When you are done with this, re-check the behavior of the engines at max throttle.  They should be OK - they don't have to be perfect, but should be very close.  If they are off a lot, use Ops Mode programming for the faster loco to get it back in line with the slower one.  Then re-check behavior at half-throttle, re-adjust as necessary, and re-check at max throttle again.  With any luck, you won't have to do this more than once.

Step 5.  Stop the locos, set them 1 foot apart again, and crack the throttle to speed step 1.  Do they start and move at about the same speed?  If not, you may need to adjust CV2 to match them.  When you've done that, go back and check the locos at half-throttle and full throttle.  If you've changed CV2, you will probably need to make some minor adjustments in CV5 and CV6 for the loco that you changed CV2 on.

Now, do you want momentum?  If so, take one of the locos (doesn't matter which one) and program CV's 3 and 4 with the amount of momentum you want (use the same value in both CV's for now).  Put the same values in the other loco to start with.  Put them on your track, separated by about 5 feet.  Turn the throttle on full blast, and observe the accel rate.  If the "other" loco is faster or slower in reaching top speed, use Ops Mode to adjust CV3 accordingly (higher values = more momentum, which means slower accel time).  Repeat this process however many times you need to until the acceleration rates for the two locos are similar.  Enter the same value that you came up with for CV4.  Test decel by accelerating the locos to max speed, then quickly turning the throttle to zero to make sure the decel rates match.  If not, use Ops Mode programming to adjust the decel rate in the "other" loco.

You're done.   I've found that this process usually takes about 30 minutes.  You should now be able to enter the values for CV's 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 from your non-sound unit into the other non-sound unit and have pretty good matched performance.  If you're really picky about it, you can do this process over for the other non-sound unit to get an even better match among the three locos.

If you'd rather replace the non-sound decoders, ESU sells its LokPilot non-sound decoder that you can hard wire into the non-sound units.  The LokPilot uses all the same motor control and function control circuits as the LokSound, which means the values in CV's 2-6 should be identical for each loco.   The LokPilot sells at e-tailers for about $35.  It's a great non-sound decoder, and I use it in my non-sound units just to simplify things like speed matching!

John C.

woodchip

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Re: GMD-1 speed matching
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2016, 07:18:01 PM »
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Looks like I'll be busy trying cv numbers and finding a note book and a pencil. My old iMac and jmri will be most helpful


     Hugh